FLIP BURGERS TO SAVE UP TO WORK UNPAID, SAYS RUTHLESS CEO OF NEW AGENCY OFFERING PAID-FOR INTERNSHIPS
The founder of a new website which charges people to intern for free has claimed his company offers a useful and valuable service to young jobseekers, by charging them up to £200 to work for free for the day as so-called “Assisterns”.
Kit Sadgrove, chief executive of Etsio.com, told Recruiter:
“There is absolutely pent-up demand from people willing to pay an employer for work experience. It is incredibly cheap if you see it as training, considering you are sitting next to a business owner and learning their secrets.
“If people are keen enough to do this they will go out and flip burgers in order to get the money [they need].”
Graduate Fog can also exclusively reveal how Etsio company is promoting itself to the mainstream media – after one of our contacts at a national newspaper kindly forwarded this press release to us:
From: Kit Sadgrove
Subject: Press release: Businesses Now Get Paid to Take Interns
Date: 2011/10/27October 27, 2011
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASEBUSINESSES NOW GET PAID TO TAKE INTERNS
Controversial new ‘pay-to-learn’ service offers hope for job seekers.
Wedding planners, graphic designers, and advertising agencies are just three of the many businesses now offering training on a new site, Etsio.com.
But unlike traditional internships, the Assisterns, as Etsio calls them, pay the employer for on-the-job training.
And Etsio boss Kit Sadgrove is urging businesses to sign up to his site because of the demand he’s seeing.
The Assisterns gain knowledge and information on their chosen world of work from small businesses who spend time showing them the skills they need.
“We have lots of people who are hungry to get information and skills in their chosen careers,” said Etsio boss Kit Sadgrove. “But with the current high unemployment figures, people are often competing with hundreds of other applicants for one job. Many don’t stand a chance without relevant experience.
“This is a way of helping people get their first step on the ladder. And it encourages small businesses to take on an intern for a few days. If the intern does well, the company may even offer them a position.”
He added: “I’m getting rung up by people who want to take their first steps on a particular career path, but don’t know how to get started. No one is recruiting, so no one gets a chance. This is the ideal time for business owners to look at the wealth of talent that is out there.”
There’s no fee for employers to join; and they can set their own daily fee. Some companies make no charge for the training.
The site is attracting controversy from those who believe that it’s wrong for people to pay for work experience. But Sadgrove said: “How else can people get on the ladder? With the recession, no one is taking on staff.
“Anyone who’s determined to get work experience will see this as a unique opportunity.
“And if you’ve spent £40,000 on a university degree, which is what it costs, a few hundred quid to get experience is a good investment.”
Whereas at an ordinary internship, an intern would normally perform routine tasks like filing, an Etsio Assistern gets a short term, high-impact placement, usually next to the business owner.
Questions have been raised about how Etsio’s business fits with the National Minimum Wage law – which clearly states that anybody with set hours and responsibilities is a ‘worker’ and must be paid at least the NMW (£6.08 for over 21s). Etsio’s website maintains that its business model is legal, stating:
“While it’s a legal requirement to pay workers a minimum wage, our interns are not workers. They don’t have regular tasks, they aren’t under the control of the employer, and they can come and go as they please. The intern is paying to learn, just as students pay to attend university.”
But are Etsio’s Assisterns really just work shadowing? On the company’s home page, it clearly says:
“Small business: Need a temporary assistant or intern? You’ll find them here.”
The website also tells employers:
“…we provide you with a checklist, suggested work activities, and day plans – so you don’t have to spend time working out how to manage them. That way, the intern will be a real help to your business, while getting the experience they need.”
Hm. Doesn’t that appear to suggest that the Assitern will be doing work that’s of value – and that the employer gains useful, valuable labour from the arrangement?
As if that’s not bad enough, Etsio also takes the opportunity to tell would-be ‘Assisterns’ what a burden they are to small businesses:
“Major corporations take interns, because they can afford to, and mostly they pay them. But small companies simply don’t take interns. If you want work experience with the kind of small, exciting professions we deal with, we have to incentivise them to give you work experience. And that means paying them.”
Classy. Happily, Graduate Fog’s friend Alex Try, co-founder Interns Anonymous, was having none of it, telling Recruiter:
“Whatever happened to investing in young people, training them up and helping them to realise their potential?”
Graduate Fog is deeply concerned at what appears to be the latest example of employers using the youth unemployment crisis as a way to cut their staff costs – and boost profits. Young people lack experience, but their work still has great value and they deserve a proper wage for their labour. We know that times are tough for businesses, but we believe they must remember their responsibility towards their young workers – and not demand something for nothing.
*HAVE YOU WORKED AS AN ETSIO ‘ASSISTERN’?
Were you doing real work, which classified you as a ‘worker’, or was the role more like work shadowing, as Etsio claim? If you haven’t worked for Etsio, would you consider it? Or should companies like this be shut down?
So its paying for on the job training? The site makes it sound like a course.
But it isn’t really on the job training if there is no formal contract involved and no legal binding. There is no promise of a refund if you have an issue with the the internship, like there is if you have an issue with a formal training course.
“The intern is paying to learn, just as students pay to attend university.”
This is not a justifiable comparison. At the end of university or a course I would have a certificate or qualification (whether or not its worth the money I paid is irrelevant). With this you have no guaranteed outcome, just the PROMISE of experience and contacts.
The fact that you are giving money to Etiso/a company means that services are being rendered. I can see there being a myriad of legal requirements and issues here. I wish I had a background in it, maybe this is something worth investigating Tanya?
The Employment Agencies Act 1973 section 6 denies the ability for employment agencies to charge job seekers to find work on their behalf.
If it could be found that any of these people are workers who come through Etsio, then they may be liable to be fined up to £5000.
Jus’ sayin’…
This is just cynical manipulation of an unfortunate situation. It is an insult to graduates who have many valuable skills to bring to any forward thinking business and exasperating an already prominent class divide when it comes to entering the world of employment. I agree that there should be more done to encourage companies to help graduates and prevent the impending skills vacuum, but allowing profiteering “recruiters” to take hard earned cash from the pockets of naive jobseekers is patently not the way to go about it. We are already being asked to work for free and if a company can not afford a free intern then it is certainly not the sort of business you want to learn from. Ultimately it is down to graduates to vote with their feet and approach employers directly by picking up the phone.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kitsadgrove does this mug look like someone who understands the graduate job market? I think it will probably fail on its own.
This is stupid it’s more like volunteer work when the law states that no volunteer should be out of pocket.
Also most universities offer career guidance and help getting work experiance while on the course and will help you get a job when you have left your course. A few days experiance isn’t worth that price plus students struggle enough for money as it is.
These people are scum and deserve to be sued again and again and again until they go bankrupt! Then they can see what it’s like to be poor and unemployed, just like the rest of us! It’s bad enough that graduates can’t find jobs and have to pay for their own travel expenses frequently on top of everything else, but this is just adding insult to injury. Employers ask the world of you for nothing, but having to pay them for the ‘privilege’ too? Ridiculous!
Oliver pays Mr Bumble for the right to work the treadmill in his workhouse. Now why didn’t Dickens think of that?
Hey Tanya check this out. I was looking at their website and it’s really unsettling how many companies have jumped on the bandwagon. Some companies are “nice” enough not to charge a fee (like Grassroots Diplomat), but you are expected to do REAL WORK! In fact the interview process involves sending in a press release about the company. Oh and you’re expected to secure clients… I don’t know that sounds like a real job to me. But this is what I wanted to show you:
Fashion – 001058
Location [Town]: London
Profession: Fashion
No. of employees: 21-50
Description: SORAPOL is a new fashion brand which was launched in October. Since then, SORAPOL has received large amounts of press, and has been taken on by Blow PR. SORAPOL is working towards Autumn/Winter 2012 collection, which will be launched in March next year.
Kind of person we’re looking for: Hard working, reliable interns who have sewing, embroidery or pattern cutting skills.
Fee to be paid by the intern: £65 a day
Enquire about work experience with this business
So you’re expected to do production for the company yet pay £65 a day for the “privilege”. No doubt they will be selling this stuff and making a profit.
Hiya Eva
As you’ve spotted this, suggest you forward your email (with supporting evidence) to HRMC too and ask them what they’re going to do (and when) about the Etsio ad. They said they were going to investigate unpaid internships in the fashion industry.
It’ll be interesting to hear how you get on. I’d expect a serious investigation by HRMC to lead to the abandonment of this particular “business model”.
Absolutely revolting. Makes me want to become an employment lawyer. Why is this allowed to happen?!
AngryGraduate:
Because Etsio are only committing a gross moral crime… They aren’t breaking the law.
The employers who advertise with them probably are – but I could speculate that they are doing so on Etsio’s advise that it’s legal.
I’m interning at the moment somewhere and getting paid a decent wage. I agree with Nick- this is completely insulting, not only to graduates but anyone with half a brain cell who’s looking for work. “This can range from £50 to £200 a day”<= this surely can't be legal?!
I’m glad to see this has provoked such a strong reaction! Does anyone know anyone who ‘Assisterned’ (!) via Etsio? Were they work shadowing or doing real work? I am suspicious that the company’s website is so unclear about this… If they have nothing to hide, why can’t they get their story straight?
@CareersPartnershipUK
Have you ever had any success reporting anything to HMRC? Because I haven’t… I have put endless evidence their way – and I have heard nothing from them, nor have I seen any action being taken about any of the companies I have complained about. These employers’ brazen, exploitative, illegal, unpaid internships are still plastered all over their websites… and young people are still doing them, because they feel they have no alternative.
As I told the Low Pay Commission last month, I’m afraid to say I’ve given up on HMRC now. I think they just put my letters in the bin. They provide no way of way of following up as whatever HMRC gets up to (very little as far as I can see) is ‘confidential’. I have had a far better response passing my evidence on to the Guardian, the Telegraph and the Daily Mail – at least I can see something happening!
The Employment agencies Act prevents agencies from charging people to find work. Report them to Pay and Work Rights Helpline.
and this position has got data inputting written all over it
“Management consultant – 001053
Location [Town]: Deeping St James
Profession: Management consultant
No. of employees: 1-5
Description: We are a leading supplier of Management Development and HR Consultancy services. Our business is built on a strong foundation of expertise and a total commitment to delivering on your expectations. We work with you to provide bespoke solutions and we are renowned for delivering tangible ROI.
Our expertise is the result of extensive experience working with multinationals, SME businesses and public sector organisations. We provide value to you through the strength of our service, our knowledge and our ability to deliver effective learning & development results.
We can offer experience of working with international blue chip clients. give understanding of how to develop client relationships, business planning and deal with daily operational needs.
Kind of person we’re looking for: A quick thinking, adaptable, computer literate, individual with a desire to understand CRM and sales development in a Management consultancy and HR business. Comfortable working at a high level and at pace.
Fee to be paid by the intern: £100 a day”
This is truly disgusting if it isn’t illegal then it should be
Hi Tanya
HRMC’s publicly committed itself NOW to investigating unpaid (actually charged for!) internships in the fashion industry. That fact makes it politically more embarrassing to stonewall Eva’s email than it was to ignore your earlier contacts with them.
HRMC may still not be the most proactive organisation out there but Eva would at least be pushing at an open door (thanks to the long campaign fought by GF and others). I think it’s worth trying. Sending a couple of emails doesn’t cost anyone a lot of time.
I can certainly see how the HMRC, by creating a 12 person committee to cover the issue of National Internships within the UK Fashion Sector, is going to achieve any substantive outcome, let alone address tbe corrupting and insidious influence of the adoption of a Slave Based Working Culture by SME’s.
There is no “12 person committee”, it is a team of people (around 12) who are pursuing the issue of unpaid work masquerading as internships.
There is no point sending any adverts to HMRC, either now or in the future, as they do not regard that as satisfactory evidence that the regulations are being broken. They will not follow them up.
Now however is a good time to send them details of ongoing minimum wage abuses in the TV, Film and Fashion industries (based on first hand evidence) as they are committed to follow these up during the next few months.
Hi everyone, it’s me again! Just way too addicted to this blog (there are barely any other blogs out there that are so regularly updated and connect with the current grad situation).
I want everyone to read this: http://www.jessicahische.is/obsessedwiththeinternet/andhelpingyougetpaid/the-dark-art-of-pricing
It is American, but I think it is still highly relevant, especially for those in the creative industries. It’s a little beyond us fresh faced grads, but still rings true. If everyone starts charging money again and NOT offering work for free/unpaid internships, perhaps we can all aim for a slightly better future. I’m going to try my hardest to avoid unpaid internships/money-losing jobs, so I hope you will all do so too and support our rights to even put food on the table!
So we are moving back to the 18th century where only those that could afford it got what they wanted?
What happened to hiring (at whatever level) based on talent, not Daddy’s bank balance? Disgusting!
Let’s say you want to become an interior designer or a wedding planner.
How do you find out how the business works?
Simple, we have small companies who will train you, for a modest fee.
Full disclosure: I run the Etsio site.
Kit Sadgrove,
In terms of the exploitation of young people, your service has plunged new depths of shuystering.
Making a profit out of the desperation of young people to find work is about as low as you can get. At a time when they are involved in a period of compliance specifically aimed at companies that break the Minimum Wage regulations, I trust that HMRC will be watching your shady activities very closely.
Do not even start to dress up this revolting behaviour as being some kind of way to help young people gain experience, it is profiteering pure and simple.
I hope all decent people will petition as widely as possible to get this site closed as soon as possible.
I don’t want to get into unnecessary detail. But our solicitors says our interns aren’t ‘employees’ and therefore the Minimum wages Regs don’t apply.
More to the point, you haven’t answered the question I posed.
Kit
You undervalue the skills young people have with your disgusting business practice, and have the nerve to dress it up as a beneficial service?
Let’s be clear here, the only people you’re benefitting are employers and yourself.
Hi Kit
Thanks for commenting on Graduate Fog – I have to admit I admire your bravery! : )
That’s interesting that your lawyers have told you that legally what your company is doing is fine, because my understanding is that where someone is doing the job of a ‘worker’ – with set hours and responsibilities, not free to come and go as they please – the NMW law says they must be paid. The company must pay them and they are not allowed to waive their wages. This is not just to protect them from being exploited, it is also to ensure that other people who cant’ afford to work for less than the NMW are not excluded from these opportunities.
Is it your understanding that your ‘Assisterns’ are NOT ‘workers’ – and if so, why?
Tanya
Why should graduates pay to be trained? If you are defined as a volunteer (which is how companies get away with not paying interns) then you shouldn’t be out of pocket. That is why expenses have to be paid to volunteers. I am not convinced what you do is legal at all.
Your assumption is that graduates have no experience or skills which make them useful. You say that yourself on your twitter feed and on the etsio website, it’s ridiculous. I worked and volunteered all through uni, I gained useful experience so that I could be employable when I graduated. The idea that I should then have to pay someone to provide me with more experience is abhorrent. When does it stop, when do you get classified as having enough experience to get a permanent job? It isn’t education, it’s exploitation.
Do you really think you are offering a service to people out of the goodness of your heart or are you simply taking advantage of the current economic crisis and youth unemployment? How do you expect us to believe that this isn’t about your money appose to actually caring about graduates?
So when you say the employers train those who pay you, what qualification do “students” come out with? What accreditation will these qualification have? Who writes the “curriculum” and who oversees it? How is it assessed?
This is utter nonsense and trying to dress it up as anything other than exploitation is futile.
Kit, you can dress this up however you like, but people don’t pay to train on the job. It’s the other way around.
Can people sink no lower? Really?
Kit,
Seriously. Please don’t dress this up as a service to job seekers that they could not otherwise access. I’m not a fan of unpaid internships, but that is better than this. Are you a recruitment business? I’m puzzled as to the set up of the company, and a recruitment business would seem the best description. The only employment business that can charge candidates is a theatrical or sports agent. I’m not sure if you fit these categories, but would think not. Given that you chose “The Recruiter” to promote your business, you still look like a recruitment business.
If you are not a recruitment business, does this make you a training company? That would loosely make your business legal, althoughmany would have moral questions.
In the interests of transparency, perhaps you could let us know what is offered to the intern by way of contract, and as you have a contract with the company, what is required of them? Are there any stipulations over training to be offered, health and safety etc, making sure the intern gets a return for their money and effort.
If you could be open about exactly what people get for their money, and how you manage this, it might make things clearer.
At the moment there are lots of questions, perhaps you could answer a few.
Bill
If your not a fan of this practice, sign the petition http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-charging-for-internships.html
In relation to your argument, if you pay for your degree, you should pay for work experience. At £200 a day, you would go through £9000 in just over two months, so not exactly the same value for money as a degree?
Zing: You have to move on from the world of formal academia. We’re talking about real-world skills here.
Amy: Etsio is a business. I make no apology about that. For what it’s worth, I’m opening internship opportunities to the world of small companies.
Tanya: Our interns don’t have set hours or responsibilities, and are with the company for maybe one week. I agree that where an intern works many months for an employer, and doing a set job, that should clearly be paid because they’re doing the job of a worker.
The real focus should be on big companies (and charities) who do just that. I’ve heard the construction business do that. So does Disney in the US.
It’s exploiting a poor economy, a high unemployment rate, an increasing disillusionment with university and degrees and it’s taking advantage of the insecurities of students who fear they have wasted thousands of pounds, and years of their lives.
Being made to pay for work experience will only compound all these social problems, and most alarmingly the imbalance of wealth and class divisions in this country will be greatly increased.
And kit, did you go to university and if so perhaps you can tell us how you learnt about business afterwards…
@Kit
If it’s just for a week, that is clearly ridiculous. I could phone up any small business right now and they would happily let me do work experience for a week for free, it would cost them nothing. I highly doubt your model offers anything beyond that. It’s taking advantage and don’t try to convince yourself otherwise.
Hi Kit,
I’m glad that you actually have the brass to come onto here and defend yourself. Would you be able to tell me what your employees are classed as? You say they are not classed as ‘interns’, well that is true because there is no such as an ‘intern’ in British law. There are three types of worker under the NMW Act, Worker/Employee/Volunteer – the first two are entitled to be paid at least the Minimum Wage.
Sean.
Hi Kit,
I would be really interested to hear what your definition of an ‘intern’ is – and would you also clarify how it differs from your definition of an ‘employee’? Is the only difference that one is paid NMW or above and other is not?
Also is it your position that your ‘assisterns’ are not ‘workers’? If so, why?
Thanks!
Hey Sadgrove – I’ve got an idea for you. Why don’t you charge the homeless a fee for a ‘taster’ of their own home. They could spend a few days begging or selling the Big Issue, save up £50 – £200 to spend a night in a little flat somewhere, to see if it’s for them, and get the full experience.
What say you?
Fashion – 001058
Location [Town]: London
Profession: Fashion
No. of employees: 21-50
Description: SORAPOL is a new fashion brand which was launched in October. Since then, SORAPOL has received large amounts of press, and has been taken on by Blow PR. SORAPOL is working towards Autumn/Winter 2012 collection, which will be launched in March next year.
Kind of person we’re looking for: Hard working, reliable interns who have sewing, embroidery or pattern cutting skills.
Fee to be paid by the intern: £65 a day
Enquire about work experience with this business
This is the example Eva gave earlier in the discussion as to an internship to be found on Etsio…
Pretty sure that’s worse than sweatshop. Even slave labour doesn’t require a fee for the privilege of working
Kit,
I’m more curious about how your business works than about any moral arguments. Whilst I’m against the idea of paying to intern I’m sure everyone else will want to argue to death about it, I want to know about Etsio as a business.
Can you re-iterate for me how Etsio makes money. Companies pay you a fee to find them interns, correct? Much in the same way a recruitment agency would? The successful interns would then pay the company themselves? I would have thought this to be correct, but you refer to the interns as ‘our interns’ – does that mean they work for you, like a recruitment agency worker?
Do the interns sign any form of contract at any time?
If an intern had an issue with a company or was not satisfied with the training provided, what rights to they have around a refund or complaint? This would apply to a recruitment company and a formal course, so what about Etsio?
I like how Kit tries to justify this by saying the interns don’t have set duties.
If they’re not doing work, they’re doing nothing of value that’s worth putting on their CV. You’re not picking up any skills.
All it says is: I am a second class individual who cannot compete fairly so I need to buy my way to jobs, often with daddy’s money.
Shadowing a company doesn’t make you an expert on the industry anymore than reading a book does, and it certainly doesn’t give you experience or abilities if you don’t get involved in the work.
Kit
Were you an expert on distance learning training for people to become pet bereavement counsellors in a former life? Just curious.
Regards
Patrick
I notice you didn’t answer my post Kit. Where is this assumption that graduates don’t have ‘real world’ skills coming from? I’m not sure where you got educated, but graduates don’t live in fantasy bubbles. I am a current paid intern (along with 10 others) and I can assure you that all the bosses involved who work with interns could not speak more highly of the skills, enthusiasm and work ethic that the graduates have brought into the work place. Verbatim quote from my manager last week “people have been pleasantly surprised at just how capable the interns have been and the high standard of work that they have produced”. I find it insulting that you would make the assumption that because I am a graduate that I would have nothing to bring to a workplace. And people like you perpetuate this nonsense, exacerbating the problem, as people become more reluctant to hire recent graduates.
@Jack – and you have to have the skills in the first place, so it doesn’t sound like training to me!
@everyone – I don’t think this business will ever be a success – 99% of their traffic will be from people disgusted with the whole idea – a bit like when you can’t help sneaking a peek at the traffic accident …
Kit –
You asked “How do you find out how the business works?” (I have to assume you’re being serious, although I am almost speechless that you’re asking).
There are a number of ways to find out how a particular business works. By getting a job in the general area and gaining experience. By taking a vocational course in that area if there is one. By thinking about it and working out the steps you need to take. I have no interest in becoming a Wedding Planner and yet am fairly certain that given half an hour I could discover what would be required of me. By interning (and being suitably recompensed).
You present Etsio as a company willing to help graduates in difficult times, when in fact you are cashing in on the problems many of us are facing, and compounding them by legitimising the idea that we should not expect to be paid for our work. As everyone knows, the gap between the rich and poor in this country is now as big as it was in the 1920s. It’s like a modern day upstairs – downstairs, and you are creating an opportunity out of this, by asking us to pay to work, by building on our fears that if we do not ‘get ahead’ now, we will never achieve our potential.
If unpaid internships and ‘opportunities’ such as yours were not around, employers would be forced to give a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work.
You are abusing the current social climate and you ought, quite frankly, to be ashamed of yourself.
I wonder why Kit has gone quiet, maybe they have realised that what they are doing is morally corrupt and illegal. I hope someone sues the pants off you, quite frankly.
Can I ask how much money you paid out to companies in exchange for work experience when you started out on the career ladder, Kit?
We graduates paid for our formal academic training with the awareness that we were investing in our future: a future that involves being paid for our hard work and acquired skills. As mentioned above by Lisa, the difference in value between a three year degree and two months experience, both priced at £9000, seems simply laughable. At university, we are guaranteed an education clearly adhering to our chosen field; at your company, we are guaranteed a few days of tailing a businessman from desk to printer, and are at said businessman’s whims.
You are not running an internship or work experience business. You are offering short training courses, for a fee, that conversely do not provide enough ‘set duties’ to constitute a wage.
I think a change of your website’s terminology is necessary to prevent any more miscommunication between yourself and a group of understandably irate graduates.
I am both glad and extremely sad to see the reaction to this. I’ve been communicating with @sadgrove on Twitter today too. He tweeted “I pay for my training. Why wouldn’t you?” at 13:35. The simple answer? I can’t afford for myself, and I’ve set up my own organisation! That organisations, by the way, supports young people from less privileged backgrounds flourish by mapping and launching their optimal career. It’s a charity.
The young people we have on our Star Track programme certainly can’t afford to work for free, let alone to work for a FEE. In fact (NB we are tiny, just 13 on our programme) we actually go out to find funding so that we can provide a stipend (based on the Living Wage) for a two week placement for our young people during the summer. And we particularly want to encourage them to work at SMEs.
Saying that, we are all too aware that with the economy in a tailspin, it is hard for organisations and businesses, especially small ones, to find the funds to pay people. But it’s not impossible. Local banks and other bigger organisations might be able to support smaller businesses and organisations through CSR to provide funding for a young person to gain experience. We have other suggestions for young people and organisations here – although they are far from perfect and additional input would be valuable.
In light of the survey of British Social Attitudes this week, this business model as championed by Etsio can only serve to reinforce the divide between those who can and those who can’t afford unpaid work experience. And it adds a new chasm now too: between those can and those who can’t afford to PAY for this.
Mr Sadgrove, like everyone else you know this is exploitative, whether or not this lands the correct side of the law, it quite obviously falls the wrong side of the moral dividing line.
Charging a young person £260 a day to work at a company.
Revolting, plain and simple.
I should make a minor correction – Wholesome Nutrition is listed as a dormant company but its status is active and it filed accounts recently.