EVEN THE BBC FAVOURS WEALTHIER APPLICANTS, SAYS ASPIRING JOURNALIST BEN
Last month’s social mobility report found that journalism is now one of the most “socially exclusive” professions around – accessible only to those who can afford to work for free for months on end. Young broadcast journalist Ben (name changed), now 30, has met Tony Blair and David Cameron, interviewed celebrities and covered the Manchester riots in August 2011 – but he has paid a huge price. Here, he tells Graduate Fog how he was left bankrupt after spending six years desperately seeking full-time work – and why for most young people starting a career in the media in 2012 just doesn’t add up…
What was it like being declared bankrupt at such a young age?
“Horrible. I had to go to the local county court to file my forms and pay a £500 fee. The judge was not actually there – I spoke to him through a speakerphone and in five minutes I was declared bankrupt. I don’t recommend bankruptcy for everyone but in my position it seemed to be my only way out. At one point I was in £26,000 of debt and I had debt collection agencies hounding me – every day I was bombarded by letters and phonecalls. It was scary.”
What was the worst thing about it?
“Definitely the stigma. A lot of my family think I took the easy way out but for me it was the right decision. There have been other consequences too – all of a sudden, getting a credit card, personal loan, renting a flat or changing energy provider became massive obstacles. I recently got rejected for buying a computer at PC World because I was deemed not creditworthy enough. My bankruptcy won’t fall off my file until November 2013 at the earliest and even then I will find it difficult to open a current account, or even find a mortgage with a decent interest rate.”
“The BBC say they believe in opportunity for all, but they want you to be available at the drop of a hat, on the off-chance they might need you for a shift. Who can afford to live like that?” Ben, 30, aspiring broadcast journalist
That sounds horrible. How things get so bad?
“I got myself into a mess trying to get myself experience in radio – and on top of the sum I’d invested in my studies, it was all too much. Despite working as a glass collector, call centre operative and a higher education administrator, I sank into more and more debt, living beyond my means and trying to carve out a career for myself in this highly competitive industry. Much of the work I was doing was either unpaid or very low paid. I couldn’t make ends meet, so I ended up applying for more loans and credit cards. Temporarily, the problem would be solved – but never for long. It costs money to live, and if you’re earning a pittance you can’t cover your bills.”
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How much had you spent on your studies?
“My undergraduate degree was in Psychology and coming from a working class background I took out the full whack of student loans in addition to working a part-time job to make ends meet. During that course, I loved working at my student radio station, so afterwards I took the huge financial gamble of studying for a journalism qualification. I took out an £11,000 career development loan – a bank loan for postgraduate students – to study at a Midlands-based university. I got down to the final two for a scholarship but just missed out – to a much wealthier candidate, ironically.”
“This report finds that journalism has shifted to a greater degree of social exclusivity than any other profession… Journalism, with some honourable exceptions, does not seem to take the issue of fair access seriously. Where it has focused on the issue, it has prioritised race and gender but not socio-economic diversity. That needs to change.” Alan Milburn’s social mobility report, May 2012
Did you think you’d walk into paid work straight after that?
“Yes – I was quite confident because some of my other colleauges on my course had walked straight into permanent jobs. I had done three unpaid placements on my course which added up to around 6 weeks worth of experience, basically learning all about how to work in a professional newsroom, going out gathering and editing audio, and producing pieces for broadcast. We also produced weekly news shows and I worked in a variety of roles (reporter, producer, editor), so I had plenty of practical experience even before I graduated. I naively assumed that would be enough. But I quickly discovered that I would need much more experience before employers would even consider me for a permanent, full-time job. In the meantime, I started temping and did the odd poorly paid shift in a news room and some traffic and travel reporting, usually at £7 an hour. I earned around £800 a month – but with my monthly repayments for all my loans averaging £670 it wasn’t anywhere near enough to survive on. We relied a lot on my wife’s student loan for her PhD at the start of her studies. (She is American and the loans they take out are totally different to the student loans that are available in the UK).”
“What seems to distinguish journalism from other professions is that interns are substitutes for what in other sectors would be regarded as functions carried out by mainstream paid employees. The practice in much of the media industry is more akin to treating interns as free labour. The problem with that is self-evident. It is possible only for those who can afford to work for free. It means that others – perhaps with equal or better claims on a career in journalism – are excluded from consideration.” Alan Milburn’s social mobility report, May 2012
Were you paid for all your freelance journalism work?
“No. I did a lot unpaid and low-paid work and what they call ‘trial’ shifts. This is supposed to be an opportunity for them to try you out for a free shift to see if they like you, with a view to offering you paid work in future – but often I got the sense that they used these trial shifts as a way to cut costs and never had any intention of offering me any paid work. All the while I did this I was losing money, spending money on travel. Then there was the cost of getting to job interviews, which employers never reimburse you for. I thought it would be cheaper if I had a car, so plunged myself further into debt by taking driving lessons. I then had the monthly maintenance of a car in addition to all my debt to contend with. I also spent three weeks in a cold campervan in Chorley for a radio station. They promised I’d be paid but it took me six months and threatening legal action before they coughed up the princely sum of £450.”
Did you try and complain?
“I fought hard for any money I’d been promised – I was shocked by how many employers tried to duck out of paying me after I’d done the work – but there was nothing I could do about the situation in general without burning bridges. All aspiring journalists know that if you kick up a fuss, word will spread and you’ll be labelled a troublemaker. So mostly everyone just accepts it as a rubbish situation. They believe it’s all part of the test – to see whether you want it badly enough.”
“It’s easy to convince yourself that your big break is just around the corner.” Ben, 30, aspiring broadcast journalist
Why didn’t you give up?
“Because I kept getting great feedback for my work, so I know I’m good enough – there are just a lot of obstacles in the way. It’s easy to convince yourself that your big break is just around the corner. I was over the moon when the BBC offered me a month’s contract paying me around £1,600 after tax. At the end of that, the editor said I’d done a fantastic job but they didn’t have the budget to pay me for any longer. Some months later, the BBC rang again to ask me to work unpaid for a week – and then I was offered two paid shifts at another BBC station, and some casual shifts at a third station. However, it was impossible to fit this around my paid job. The BBC say they believe in opportunity for all, but they want you to be available at the drop of a hat, on the off-chance they might need you. Who can afford to live like that? I can’t – I have bills to pay.”
What are you doing now?
“I haven’t given up on journalism – but I’m slowly falling out of love with the industry. I still do the occasional paid shift at a radio station but I am losing hope that this will ever lead to full-time work as both the BBC and commercial radio make cuts. I find it harder to care about an industry that’s so ready to take advantage of its young staff – and feels so little sympathy for us. Last month, I managed to get to my first ever job interview for a full-time position at the BBC (paying £24,000) – and guess what? They told me I needed more experience! They wanted at least six months of full-time experience – bits of freelance work weren’t enough. So I am still at my dead-end public sector job earning £18,000, which saps my brain on a daily basis. We’re supposed to live in a society where there is social mobility – but when unpaid experience is so vital, it’s almost impossible to improve your career prospects, particularly if you have financial or family commitments. The system is stacked against those of us who can’t afford to work for free for months on end.”
“Everyone just accepts it as a rubbish situation. They believe it’s all part of the test – to see whether you want it badly enough.” Ben, 30, aspiring broadcast journalist
What is your advice to anybody considering a career in journalism?
“Get as much experience as you can while you’re still studying – it’s ten times harder to make ends meet once you finish your degree. Do everything you can to build your network of contacts and have something set up for as soon as you graduate. And be realistic. It’s not true that if you want it enough, you’ll get there in the end. However good you are, there are no guarantees. I have dozens of friends who started off with high hopes and are seriously talented – but they’ve jacked it in to do more stable professions like teaching or law. The biggest obstacle is that every year there are more ‘bright young things’ flooding the market, willing to work for months on end unpaid. So why should anybody pay me? There are only so many times you can stand to hear an editor say, ‘I’m afraid we can’t pay you – but we can offer you a month’s unpaid experience…’”
*DO YOU SYMPATHISE WITH BEN?
Is journalism open to all – or are wealthier applicants unfairly advantaged? Are you trying to break into media – and have you faced similar obstacles? What should be done to make journalism – and media – more inclusive of candidates from all backgrounds?
He took an enormous gamble. It didn’t pay off. I have no more sympathy for him than a man who bets all his possessions on a card game.
I got down to the final two for a scholarship but just missed out – to a much wealthier candidate, ironically.”
“This report finds that journalism has shifted to a greater degree of social exclusivity than any other profession…
No evidence to suggest the scholarship was awarded on wealth or social status – bit quick to seize a point scoring opportunity.
I feel sorry for Ben but can’t help feeling the writing was on the wall for a long time, maybe he chose to ignore it.
Yes I have much sympathy for Ben. Journalism desperately needs people from all backgrounds working in it. Otherwise the news and features we get will be skewed, inaccurate and won’t reflect the lives most of its consumers actually lead.
Good luck Ben. Hope you get there in the end.
I think you are all missing the point here, what kind of future are we looking at when those who work in media or become journalists basically come from a wealthy background?
Also, he is merely pointing at the irony at even the very well off being awarded scholarships. A similar thing happened to two friends I knew, one was very poor and the other very rich however both received identical results, one offered the full scholarship and the other only part. Some presume they keep the wealthy families in university as long as possible for donation reasons later down the line… Just a thought.
@Craig – You’re really harsh, no one can predict the future and it is admirable that he kept trying.
The way things are going the majority of media positions (advertising, marketing, PR, media, new media, digital, etc) will be filled by the only ones who can afford it. Which is GROSSLY unjust but sadly seems the status quo. Social mobility my foot.
I have worked as a journalist and he is right about those at the BBC and ITN coming from wealthy backgrounds. The real trouble though is that he chose to try for a career in one of the most competitive and cut-throat industries there is, and seemed to assume it would work. Becoming a successful full-time journalist is very very difficult in this day and age, and reading his comments he seems very naive. It is a bit like doing a Masters in Music and assuming that you would be a pop star.
I do have a lot of sympathy for the position he found himself in, and for the point about wealthy kids being able to afford to work for free, but in the same way as I am uncomfortable with my friend who complains about not being able to make money as a photographer, I am uncomfortable with this. The world is coming down with journalists and photographers, not mention part timer semi-pros who are often just as good, so the idea that there is a right to succeed seems wrong. How many do we need?
Lisa, the world is a harsh place, and this is one example of that.
I too chose a competitive career, but I wasn’t so naive and irresponsible to start, let alone keep, borrowing myself into trouble. Ultimately, we don’t know the full story: How do we know that he just WASN’T good enough for a full-time job in media?
I admire the courage, but that doesn’t mean I can’t consider his actions irresponsible and foolish. He made a bet and he lost the bet, it’s that simple.
Hmm, yes Craig the world is simply that black and white. It is quite obvious this was a cumulation of events either way, what he is trying to say, without trying to gain sympathy, is how much someone from his background is forced to risk whereas those from other backgrounds can ‘have a go’ and well, bank of mum and dad will bail them or keep them afloat. You are totally missing the point of the article! He isn’t asking for sympathy, he’s having to deal with the situation himself, it is him with the bankruptcy, not you, have a little bit of understanding?
@ Alasdair – a prosaic point of view but one I’m inclined to agree with.
Even this blog, written by a Journo is disseminating news for nothing.
Did anyone else see the irony of a journalist who wants to be paid, ‘selling his story to another journalist’, neither of whom are being paid for it? Then inviting us to agree how terrible journalism is?
@Lisa, at the end of the article the bolded question asked is “DO YOU SYMPATHISE WITH BEN?”.
And my answer is no I do not sympathise at all with Ben and I explained why. What’s the problem with that?
I understand that the wider context of this article is the social immobility of journalism and I understand that there’s very little social mobility in media. But – honestly – that is NOT news to me. It’s terrible, but it’s not news.
I have to wonder: What sage-like breaking news is Ben and Tanya going to tell me next? That PR has an unpaid internship problem? You don’t say!
@Derrick
“Did anyone else see the irony of a journalist who wants to be paid, ‘selling his story to another journalist’, neither of whom are being paid for it? Then inviting us to agree how terrible journalism is?”
Well said.
it does not matter what industry you try to get in it is who you know not what you know
Well actually, I feel a huge amount of sympathy for him. It’s very easy, with hindsight, to say he should have given up at a certain point and not got himself further into debt. Were we all to be so wise all the time. But put yourself in his shoes. If you’re hell-bent on getting into an industry, and you have occasional bites of the cherry, why wouldn’t you think that this was the one, this was going to be the placement or experience that gets you the full-time role? To all Ben’s detractors I can say, lucky you, that you’ve never wanted something so badly that you’ve given up years of your life trying to get it!
There are obviously wider arguments here about the necessity (or not) about getting higher quals; or the cut-off points that people should adopt for saying enough is enough. Yet on the other hand, aren’t we always being told to be persistent, keep going, or you’ll never get there?
@ Clare – I agree with you. I think it depends what you define as your dream – if you want to be a journalist that’s one thing – anyone can publish online today. If you want to earn a living as a journalist, well the marketplace has certainly changed on that one and even seasoned journalists are decrying the amateurism that the net has brought, not to mention the drop in their value. Dreams are great, but they are just that, they aren’t reality and they aren’t a profession, to achieve a dream arguably one must confront the realities and details of one’s predicament.
Pay to view The Times online anyone?
@Derrick, for once I agree with everything you’re saying wholeheartedly.
“…to achieve a dream arguably one must confront the realities and details of one’s predicament.” – Beautifully put!
@Claire
“To all Ben’s detractors I can say, lucky you, that you’ve never wanted something so badly that you’ve given up years of your life trying to get it!”
Sure there are things I want – I actually originally went into my degree thinking I was not only going to become a barrister with ease, but ACTUALLY that I was going to one day be a Law Lord or Lord Justice of Appeal.
Through my own research about the industry, and through my acknowledgement of the realities of legal careers, I realised by my 2nd year of University that it wasn’t going to happen. So, what did I do? I focused my time, effort, and skills into industries which I fit nicely. Now I’ve gotta say I love doing what I’m doing (and it’s not completely irrelevant to my degree).
There’s a fine line between working towards your dreams and chasing impossibility.
I think what anyone is missing, who hasn’t been in a situation where debt is completely unmanageable and escalates quickly like this, is that there was probably a limited amount of time for Ben to (a) resolve his financial affairs (b) pursue his dream (c) pay the bills, keep his wife and/or family commitments in check etc, taking into account his particular circumstances.
It looks like he tried to do his best by taking on paid admin work where he could, and at the same time trying to gain as much relevant career experience in journalism as possible. He didn’t just sit on his bum and complain about it, he made a concerted effort from the sounds of it, under some very trying circumstances.
A lot of the fault of this can be placed squarely on University courses which ‘sell’ the dream of becoming a Broadcast Journalist. You only have to look at all the glossy literature extolling their famous ‘alumni. And also, he had built up all that voluntary experience in radio during his undergraduate course in addition to taking a practical qualification which I assume is BJTC accredited (most good courses are).
This doesn’t sound like someone following a pipedream, but someone who has steadily built up relevant experience, built contacts, but in the end been stopped by financial and socio-economic hurdles that other more well-off applicants don’t have.
If he had been a well-off applicant, he wouldn’t have got into such severe levels of debt – FACT. I can understand when there is a cut off point, but it looked like he reached this cut off point for extended unpaid experience very early on in his career from the sounds of it, and since then has tried to make up for it by getting experience in a more piecemeal fashion. The problem with that is that nobody is interested in someone who has done the odd shift or two and isn’t readily available, they want someone who has a solid block of experience.
So, yes, I have every sympathy with Ben. I hope you get there eventually mate, or at least find something else creative that treats you better.
I agree it’s unfair that the media is so dominated by wealthy people because of the need to work for free or know the right people before you can get a paid role. However, I do think Ben made some seriously bad judgements which makes me question his common sense: driving lessons and buying a car to try to save money?! Surely most people can see the sums there don’t add up and he has to take responsibility for that foolish decision, as well as for spending so much money on a postgraduate course without researching how likely it was to help him get into the industry. I also take issue with him labeling law as a stable profession. That’s another industry where there are too many graduates and I know several who did well studying it but still couldn’t secure the pupillage required to fully qualify.
“What should be done to make journalism -and media-more inclusive?”
Ban unpaid internships and pressurise media companies to create more entry-level paid roles.
Speaking as someone who works in the industry, I can understand why he needed driving lessons. Most radio stations are located in out of the way retail parks or rural locations. This makes it nigh on impossible to use public transport (trains/buses etc) even if you choose the buses that get you somewhere at the most unsocial of hours, you could be sleeping rough the first few hours before your shift, or in a grotty hostel, which would cost you more money.
Most good jobs these days require you to be able to drive. We don’t all live in London.
Also, if your News Editor wants you to go cover a story, who is he going to pick? The guy who can drive the BBC Radiocar or the one who will cost him more money booking train tickets that may get him to the press conference late?
@A sympathetic ear
“(a) resolve his financial affairs (b) pursue his dream (c) pay the bills”
My problem isn’t that he declared bankruptcy. My problem is that he got himself to that state of affairs in the first place.There has to be a cut off point and he passed that cut off point not just by a bit; but in a MAJOR way. If his common sense and research skills (into his career, his profession, his course, his financial affairs, the list goes on!) I wouldn’t hire him were I an employer. If he can’t manage his own affairs with sound reasoning and judgment, then how could he manage mine (as an employer)?
I agree with Caitlyn that he made some seriously bad judgments. I too can vouch that law is NOT a stable profession (as I have gone down that path).
Craig,
The problem is, the article doesn’t say when he was made bankrupt. Also, I do think you have a problem with his bankruptcy – he took out a big loan from the bank, presumably because there was no other way to fund his studies. That is something that a lot of people do in order to study for professional/postgraduate qualifications, take out Career Development Loans.
The article also mentions that he applied for a scholarship, so it does look like he was researching other ways to reach his goals before taking the credit on. Now, it is very easy with hindsight, and bear in mind this article is only a snapshot of Ben’s situation, to assume that Ben’s financial problems are entirely his fault (and it is certainly his responsibility and it was his choice to go bankrupt), but if you consider that he was only going through the accepted motions considering his financial ability to study, which he wrongfully assumed would lead him to gainful employment on a salary that would allow him to make the monthly repayments, plus other bills, then surely you can allow some sympathy that when life doesn’t exactly go to plan, that it would have been easy for this debt situation to reach a critical mass?
It would be easy for my debt situation to reach “critical mass” if I decided to take out career development loans for LPCs, BVCs, Postgraduate courses, etc.
However, I chose not to. AFTER taking up all those loans, his bankruptcy was inevitable and the only course of action I’d advise. But he never should have got to that point and his actions in reaching this point were seriously misjudged and irresponsible.
With proper research he could have very easily realised before all of this that his prospects of getting a job were next to none.
To answer your question “Surely you can allow some sympathy that when life doesn’t go exactly to plan” – it hasn’t gone exactly to plan, you’re right; but the outcome of Ben’s situation would be as clear as is the summer’s sun to anyone with common sense.
We’re living in the middle of a double-dip recession. What irresponsible person takes on more credit than they’re earning – or even potentially earning (Even if he’d got the £24,000 job) – in a WHOLE YEAR?
You’re a strange person Craig with an even stranger POV. It is so easy to point the finger! I don’t think he would need someone like you telling him what an idiot he has been when he has to spend the next few years living with his mistake and brandishing him as foolish and irresponsible is a bit misjudged.
Have you not thought as well that maybe this article is here as this is becoming more widespread and this isn’t just a one off issue so really there is no need to almost vilify the one individual who has come out with their story. If we all thought like you, ‘I understand that the wider context of this article is the social immobility of journalism and I understand that there’s very little social mobility in media. But – honestly – that is NOT news to me. It’s terrible, but it’s not news’, it’d all be a little sadder. All you’ve done is taken your story of martyrdom and applied it believing everyone should do the same, if you can’t do it, don’t bother… pah.
I don’t think Craig is strange, he’s just pragmatic, that quality is required in abundance by anyone who is pursuing their dreams.
I have compassion for the guy, really I do, but I don’t have blind or unconditional compassion – that’s not insensitive or wrong, its just pragmatic.
“I hope you get there eventually mate,” – an unconditional reaffirmation that all you have to do is pursue your goals – despite what Ben has already been through. Wouldn’t it be better to wish him well AND also offer some cautionary advice? – its seems to me, that’s all Craig is proposing.
No one is trying to stifle people’s dreams here, but neither should one be blind to the realities of some people’s predicaments. Ben’s not being vilified – his position is being questioned – and quite rightly so – is no one considering the creditors – maybe some of them were owned by taxpayers, like you and I? Ben isn’t the only individual who lost out here.
Please leave the wide-eyed idealism at the door, this man, his industry and the diabolical examples we so frequently encounter remind us that’s what’s needed is pragmatism.
I don’t think it was ALL Ben’s fault but some of it was. Even ignoring the decision to borrow so much money for a course that wasn’t that likely to get him a job, once he graduated with the debt and had done several low paid/unpaid roles he couldn’t afford to live on he should have looked for a different job, not carried on borrowing. Nor should he have paid for driving lessons and a car! I don’t have a car and it probably does limit my employability but I can’t afford one so I don’t buy one. Getting credit is too easy and socially acceptable and too many people take it without thinking about how they will pay it back. I don’t see why Craig is being vilified for pointing out that it’s irresponsible to do this. Yes, Ben has to face some hardships from his mistakes, but not as hard as if he did have to pay the money back rather than have it all written off. Someone somewhere suffers for people failing to pay the money they owe, and it was a big factor in causing the recession. This doesn’t mean I think it’s OK to charge unfair interest rates and get people trapped in debt, but I do think people need to be realistic about what they can afford and avoid borrowing money without working out how they will repay it. I agree though that social mobility has pretty much stalled which is unfair and that universities often give unrealistic expectations about what job you can get after doing their course.
@Derrick and @Caitlyn, thank you both for your comments.
On Derrick’s comments I can confirm that I am a staunch pragmatist, a realist, and a firm believer in the idea of utility.
Credit is already a high-risk option because of the charges levied on its use, hence if taking out credit served a purpose to Ben’s life that would have delivered real results at **low risk**, then I say take it.
But ultimately, Ben has made a gamble that was very unlikely to work in his favour and un-surprisingly it hasn’t paid off. That is where my lack of sympathy and empathy lies.
If it really means that much that I show a bit of sympathy then I wish him all the best in the future. But I hope he comes through this a little bit more wiser and less naive to the way the world and the job market is right now. It’s not great, even in non-competitive industries.
I’m not saying “If you can’t do it, don’t bother”, but what I am saying is be real about your expectations and chances before you make un-wise investments of time, money, and reputation.
When I was applying for grad schemes, and being rejected, the best piece of advice I was ever given was “Not very many people get on graduate schemes; Honestly, step back and look at yourself, your skills, your personality, and your experience and objectively ask yourself: Are you really the one they’ll choose?”
That same advice can apply to any competitive industry and it would save a lot of heartache later, I can assure you.
I do sympathize with Ben up to a point. He was viewed as good enough to actually work for these organisations, but they are so stacked in favour of rich kids who have mummy and daddy to pay for their expenses that he just couldn’t afford to stick at it.
That being said it should be difficult for someone to become a journalist these days just going of the number of students doing a journalism degree. Universities need to make the career chances more apparant when people are deciding to enrol.
I gather from some of my slightly older friends that it just seemed normal for graduates to take out huge career development loans and rush into further study. I can see how you would end up in this kind of situation. There is a lot of bad advice out there for graduates regarding careers and further education and its the graduate that loses out.
Perhaps the key issue to address is why on earth such an amateur ever consider himself to possess “The Right Stuff” for journalism.
Uh oh Eowyn – Troll Alert I suspect!
Looking at the article, the guy secured plenty of experience (paid and unpaid), built up contacts, worked professionally in the industry (and appears to still be working on an occasional basis), and studied a professional qualification which was most likely industry accredited.
That is a strange definition of ‘amateur’ in my most humble of opinions.
Universities need to make the career chances more apparant when people are deciding to enrol.
Yes true, but we also play a part, how’s any journalist supposed to make a living when society is reading ‘news’ like this on FREE websites?
Society is to blame.
I think you’ll find within most journalism courses the students are more than aware how the media is evolving with web journalism etc. and probably know a lot more than you about it…
It’s like you just think people are idiots and can’t evaluate the situation for themselves?
And it’s like you just think people should follow this shining example of fiscal responsibility known as “Ben”.
I don’t think the article was written as an example to follow, but more to highlight the massive exploitation that does occur within this industry, and the steps that people with less means feel they ‘have’ to take to even get a foot in the door.
I do feel sorry for Ben, precisely because of the attitudes towards Bankruptcy that have been displayed on this forum. Knowing a few people who have taken this step, every single one reflected massively on the implications of it and took all available steps to avoid it. It is not the ‘easy way out’ by any means, regardless of what you read in the papers. I do wonder though, Craig, you seemed to have lived the perfect life. Please let us know your secret so that we mere mortals can follow your example
Lisa, aren’t you going to even warn Ben? Or should more creditors pick up the pieces if its repeated again?
Other people may have lost dreams and been hurt because of Ben’s bankruptcy. Why afford him more value than the others?
LOL. The level of understanding does baffle me that you could throw your judgement so harshly at someone, it’s like you forget this is someone’s life. Really, it is not uncommon for people to take out personal development loans. It is kind of a shame this isn’t available to students similar to the student loan as it does make it unaffordable for those from poor backgrounds to continue in higher education (I guess this is where his comparison to the system in America comes about). Also, I think it was Clare who explained earlier how such a situation could come about. I do think the judgement is unnecessary, I find it almost Tory-like to say that those from poorer backgrounds will be labelled as irresponsible and risk takers for simply pursuing a career they are passionate about. It’s similar to Cameron’s view that everyone should stay at home and live with mum and dad until they’re 25. The comparison being you shouldn’t be doing anything to better your situation if you’re poor. Those who make these decisions clearly aren’t idiots, so really, the anger shouldn’t be directed at ‘Ben’ but the media and the companies forcing these individuals to do unpaid/low paid jobs. I know of a very well off individual hoping to work as a journalist, and I think it’s now about 3 unpaid internships lasting nearly a year and ongoing… These are the wider issues we should be debating about not debasing somebody for the life decisions they have made, this isn’t Jeremy Kyle.
This isn’t a love in either.
OK lets debate the creditors who Ben didn’t pay.
Lets debate the small business owners who Ben didn’t pay.
Lets debate their hopes and dreams that may have been smashed or dented because they didn’t have the money?
Let’s debate the knock on consequences of not paying businesses?
Let’s debate the consequences of the Gvnt having less money in its student loans company?
Lets debate what a reduction in public finances does to society?
Let’s debate how much free will an individual has.
Let’s debate the notion of personal responsibility versus civic responsibility.
Ok lets debate the broad view and not focus on specific individual compassion so much that we obscure the broad picture.
@A sympathetic ear
I hold no judgement of people who have to take bankruptcy as an option available to them, I’d do the same in his position if it were the best legal option available to me.
What I have no sympathy for is the irresponsible use of credit leading up to the bankruptcy. THAT I have no sympathy for because we all end up paying for his mistakes.
And if you want to follow my example, by all means do go read my post above: Be pragmatic and be real about your expectations and chances before you make un-wise investments of time, money, and reputation. If you follow that principle, nobody can blame you.
@Lisa
To discuss how the media isn’t paying people if flogging a well-flogged dead horse. It’s been discussed, and highlighted, and wrote about, and re-wrote about, and studied, and everything else under the sun, before.
The media’s bad. That’s the message. We know, we get it. That isn’t news and I’m sure most of us agree with that already. Why are we kicking up old dust?
I don’t see why Ben’s actions are invulnerable from criticism. I’ve not forgotten this is a person, and I’d tell him the same in person: He made some TERRIBLE TERRIBLE MISTAKES and we should not be defending those mistakes lest other people follow them with the same defence you allow them.
@Derrick
Thank you for providing us with some new content – I’d rather debate those because I don’t think they’ve already been done ad nauseum.
Erm Derrick … if he took out loans, I think they were commercial loans. So that wouldn’t affect the student loans company. I write on Bankrupty in my day to day work, so I know a ‘little’ about the implications.
In my experience, it is exceptionally rare for anyone to go bankrupt more than once as an individual, which is what Ben would have gone bankrupt as. Restrictions on bankrupts are severe and last way beyond the initial bankruptcy order in most cases. So it isn’t in any former bankrupts interest to behave ‘irresponsibly’ as they will more than likely be slapped down with an extremely severe financial undertaking that will affect them for the rest of their lives, not the usual 6 years that it takes.
Secondly (and I can’t emphasise this enough) – Bankruptcy is NOT a crime, regardless of what the Daily Mail brigade think. And although marginally it works out for the benefit of the debtor, the creditors usually get a kick back too as some money has to be repaid to them, and the rest they can write off under tax expenses. I’m not sure what the effect on small business is really, unless you are blaming Ben for the entire recession.
Let’s look at free will shall we? Everyone has free will to pay or not pay. It is just that some people don’t have the means available to pay. So you could say that their free will has been taken away from. It doesn’t say in the article, but I assume that Ben made at least some attempt to repay his creditors which was knocked back. In this situation surely Ben’s free will and ability to control his destiny would have been taken out of his hands? You can make anyone bankrupt as an individual merely if they owe you £750, as long as you are willing to pay the processing fees. What should Ben have done, continued on racking up debt, and potentially becoming homeless, or to seek a very final solution to his problems?
Shall we consider personal versus civic responsibility? This again is not a black and white issue. If society’s systems are damaging you to such an extent that as Ben says in the article, you are having sleepless nights and presumably other emotional and mental health issues, should you soldier on and ‘stiffen your upper lip’ or is there a cut off point where you realise you must absolutely have a fresh start financially?
In summary, it isn’t a black and white issue. It isn’t a love in. It is just a very sad indictment of our society that we can’t put ourselves in someone else’s shoes, even if we don’t agree with how they went about things, we can at least express some empathy and look at the root causes of this. Businesses exploiting our peers, and then turning us against each other.
Oh I have empathy, its a very different thing to sympathy, but with my empathy comes with learning.
I had a close friend who declared himself bankrupt, I was annoyed that he owed money to the same bank that I bank with and 12 months after the bankruptcy he was still asking me for a sub.
He’s still chasing his creative dreams, unemployed, living off the state and penniless. He’s still a friend and somewhat depressed. He’s not wrong but I do wonder what he’s giving back to society and if he learns.
I also came across another friend who never paid other back, one of life’s constant, “just help me out, I’m desperate” brigade. I saw many flatmates help her, but she never paid back the odd £20/£30/£50 or partial rent money. I felt sorry for her, I felt compassion, I lent her £60, she never paid me back, despite me reminding her for 6 months, eventually she moved, she still didn’t pay me back. I thought by taking her to the small claims court it might help her learn. I did – she paid me my £60 because the court forced her to, The new land lord was worried her debts might affect his credit rating. There are consequences for others unrelated to the debt.
I lost touch with her. I’d tried to help. Another flat mate who had become a long term friend of the girl knew all this and was extremely kind, two years later she lent her £100 – she never got it back. They lost a long term and fruitful friendship.
When I was young I was a loan underwriter – I lent money for a living, consumer credit – the two things we would consider when granting a loan – the ability to pay and the willingness to pay, along with other factors. Then credit scoring came in, machines took over and made decisions based on statistical probability and historical data. They are still making decisions now, the bankers control the accept/reject benchmark and move it as they wish.
Life and decisions are never black and white, one should go through both without hurting people.
I feel very sorry for Ben, he was just following his dream and trying to make the best for himself. However, maybe he should have put it on hold for a while before things got out of hand. There are too many students studying at university and not getting the job they deserve at the end. I don’t think it’s fair that employers are favouring wealthier applicants though, especially in the media industry. We need a range of people from all different backgrounds to get the right balance!
I don’t neccesarily sympathise with some of the poor choices that Ben made which led to his bankruptcy – however I do very much sympathise with him and anyone else who is trying to make it in journalism, media etc. The sad truth is that for those without the wealth to be able to afford to do unpaid placements, the choice is pretty much between giving up or getting in to debt.
Ensuring all genuine work within journalism/media is paid would radically reduce the number of work placement & internhsip opportunities available in the sector – but I’d suggest that’s a reasonable price to pay to make the profession more meritocratic, and genuinely open to people of all financial means.
It’s also worth pointing out that if you’re getting into debt there are advice and help services out there – your local Citizens Advice Bureau should be able to direct you to reputable sources of help and advice. If you’re a student your University’s Student Advice Centre may offer help, or be able to direct you to it. Careers Services don’t usually offer debt advice, but will be happy to talk through your career or further study plans with you, and may be able to challenge any false assumptions you may have made – e.g. whether a particular postgrad course will be helpful to your career ambitions. Accessing the right advice and support may have helped Ben avoid his unfortunate situation.
@Derrick and Craig, good points well made.
@A sympathetic ear: No one has said going bankrupt is a crime! Everyone accepted it was the best thing Ben could have done once the debt had built up to that extent-what we did criticise were his bad decisions. It’s not all the media, bank or university’s responsibility, individuals have responsibilities too. As Derrick mentioned, there are serious consequences for society as a whole when people borrow money they can’t afford to repay. Ben himself admitted it was “a huge financial gamble” and that he was “living beyond his means”-with someone else’s money. Should we be encouraging everyone to follow their dreams at the expense of other people, no matter how unrealistic they are? I know Ben was getting close to success but he still should have realised sooner that he needed to stop working for such low pay and cut his spending.
I found it hard to find a job when I left university and ended up suffering badly with depression and anxiety, something I’ve struggled with for 8 years. I take medication, live on ESA and with my parents. I’ve got a first class English degree and have lots of skills, in fact I’m a bit of a writer myself. I know what it’s like for your life not to work out how you want. However, I still don’t think that means it’s OK to behave irresponsibly with money. This doesn’t mean I have no sympathy, it means I have limited sympathy as I would not have been that foolish and struggle to understand how someone educated could be. Having said that I do agree there should be a big reduction in the amount of unpaid placements and internships in all sectors. Of course businesses shouldn’t exploit people but we’re not helpless victims-we all have some choices-even if finances limit those for some of us.
Journalism is really hard to get into. The only way is to make sure you get your foot in the door while still at university. After that do freelance stuff ON THE SIDE.
A lot of it is knowing people. If ever there was an industry in which having a good network is important, it’s in journalism!
I am a freelance journalist, I have been at it for over a year and I have only just started to reach the position where I can pay my share of the rent and bills. My former partner, now my flat mate, works in a dead end public sector job and earns about £16,000. I’ve known for ages about the class bias in mainstream media, it stinks, but the BBC is one of the worst for it in my opinion. To an extent I am not sympathetic, you tried to walk into a top media job and got canned for it, moreover you’re whining about earning £18,000 in a public sector job when others earn less than that. If you don’t like it leave and go freelance, you might not earn much but at least you’ll be running your own life. For most people these days, going into journalism means going freelance, in fact freelancing is the main growth sector in the country at the moment. And its going to stay that way until someone sorts out the class bias in mainstream media, which I can’t see happening for years, if ever. That’s just the way it is unfortunately. Anyway, mainstream media usually reinforces the usual dumb programming anyway, so be radical and actually write on what’s really going on in the world, I’d rather do that than be involved in producing even more crap Eastenders and Holby episodes anyday.
Hi Robin,
Nice to meet a fellow journo on here. I was one of the ‘lucky’ ones who managed to walk straight into a contract,then a staff job (although I spent a lot of time networking during my course, don’t hate me people, I’m the exception, not the rule!). Ben doesn’t appear to have been so lucky.
I think it is great that you have managed to start paying your own way. But that was with the help of a partner who was able to financially support you in the fallow periods I presume?
From the article above, it looks like Ben has certain family commitments that preclude him from jacking in his job. Maybe it will become more feasible once his partner starts work (the article doesn’t mention if she has finished her studies or not).
Hi, yes you’re right it was. If not, I probably would have had to find a bedsit in Bath after graduating and claim benefits which would have made things a lot harder. As it is its touch and go whether I manage to raise enough or not. Fortunately, I got into the whole solar PV thing at the beginning of the year, but unfortunately the solar PV market has now effectively crashed, so my writing work in that particular sector has depleted by about half. At the moment I’ve just scraped £600 for the month, whereas previously I was able to reach £1000, thus being able to pay my half of the rent, plus bills, plus a very small amount extra to spend.
Re: Ben’s family commitments, ah didn’t spot that one. Yup that would certainly make it very difficult indeed.
The only way to get into journalism these days as far as I can see is to either get a professional Masters or Postgrad qualification and then hope for the best – which judging by Ben’s experience is not very likely, or freelance, which is what I decided to do having my partner at uni and simultaneously discovered that there weren’t any jobs out there…. my partner graduated slightly earlier than I did so she managed to miss the full whack of the recession in 2008 by literally a couple of months, unlike me. Freelance writing therefore became a necessity for me.
There’s only way to make it as a freelance and that’s to aggressively chase every opportunity to write and pitch a story you can, as life was any different anyway. But at least its better than being on the dole and being shoved into a shelf-stacking or cleaning job.
I half think that we should have a three year ban on any new people aiming to work in journalism/ PR/ media/ ‘the arts’ (and especially on the cash cow postgrad degrees that train people for these fields). OK, it’s unworkable in reality- But they are so incredibly oversubscribed, and have so many desperate people willing to do whatever it takes to get in, that it seems almost hopeless for anyone joining the queue at the back. An awful lot of people are just not going to be able to follow their dreams, and it might be kinder to find that out sooner rather than later.
A lot of people commenting here have completely missed the point of this article.
Those of you who seem to be grasping on to the idea that Ben should’ve given up, that perhaps he wasn’t talented enough and that there are too many people wanting to work in the media are completely misguided.
So what if lots of people want to work in the journalism/PR/”insert glam media career”? Natural selection happens and those who are talented, whatever their background, will make it, or at least that’s what should happen in an ideal world.
The issue being highlighted in this article is that these days it seems that only those with parents who can offer endless support can afford to work for free and therefore make it in an industry where unpaid work experience is the norm (this is something which should change). It is nigh impossible to find funding for postgraduate study in the arts unless you take out a Career Development Loan, as Ben did.
There is the Journalism Diversity Fund, but you have to be from an economically or ethnically diverse background, which leaves out many people (mostly mid-to-lower middle class and upper working class) who can’t rely on their parents for support but at the same time don’t fit the criteria for funding.
As for the comments about Ben not having what it takes and the evidence being in the fact he became bankrupt, that is the biggest load of rubbish I have heard. There are many talented people working in the arts who are living on the breadline despite being recognised in their field (that’s what happens when the government pulls the rug out from under the arts). I don’t think someone who has been employed by the BBC could be considered talentless either.
Why should financial status stop a person from achieving their dreams? And why should us young people give up on our dreams because the generations above us have decided that because of the mess they’ve made they can’t afford it?
Interesting to hear from Robin that the BBC are one of the worst offenders for not employing many people from different economic backgrounds. I had noticed the top people were all from more well off families(and had been to private school!)but I didn’t realise it was like that all the way through. It’s so hypocritical as they make out they are all for diversity and opportunity! Also agree with Robin that it’s hard to feel sympathy for Ben’s complaints about his £18,000 a year job. After years unemployed I’d love the independence that salary would give me: it’s not the minimum wage even though it may be less than he would like! I thought about trying to freelance myself but wasn’t sure I was able to go about it with such a lack of contacts and experience. Any advice for me getting started Robin?