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Only 4% of companies admit using unpaid interns

Tanya de Grunwald — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 12:06:52 +0000

…SO 96% ARE LYING THEN?

“This unpaid interns nonsense is a lot of fuss about nothing.” That seems to be the view of the Association of Graduate Recruiters (AGR), whose latest survey appears to show that nearly all graduate recruiters DO pay their interns.

In results that are likely to leave Graduate Fog‘s readers dumbstruck, new research has found that 95.8% of graduate employers polled say that they do NOT use unpaid interns. The report declares:

The overwhelming majority (95.8%) of AGR members paid their interns a salary [in 2009-10]. This represents a significant increase since 2008-2009 when the equivalent figure was just 84.0%. This is highly significant in the context of an increasing emphasis on social mobility under the Coalition Government.

The median weekly salary is estimated at £300; a figure that has remained stagnant since the 2008-2009 recruitment season. However, more than a quarter (27.3%) of interns were offered a weekly salary that exceeded £350.

In April 2011, The Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg launched the Government’s social mobility strategy, which included plans to widen access to internships and reduce the number of unpaid internships offered by employers… For the Government’s strategy to take effect, Parliament and its MPs could follow the example set by AGR members and increase the proportion of interns receiving the National Minimum Wage.

Suspicious of these statistics? Me too. Graduate Fog’s users report that paid internships are few and far between – and from what I’ve seen on job boards, it seems it’s far more likely that something called an internship will unpaid than paid. And even those of you who are ‘lucky’ enough to be earning the National Minimum Wage (£5.93 an hour) will be making £237 per week – a long way off the AGR’s supposed ‘average’ of £300 per week.

As I told the Guardian this weekend, the problem with unpaid internships in the UK is completely out of control. Those of you who do them are being exploited – while those who can’t afford to do them are excluded. Internships are getting longer – with a diminishing chance of a job at the end of them. In fact, there is growing evidence that rather than leading to paid entry-level jobs, unpaid internships are now actually replacing paid entry-level jobs.

So how can the Association of Graduate Recruiters’ stats be explained?

1) What kind of companies were surveyed? AGR members tend to be large corporates in the finance and law sector, which tend to have a better track record when it comes to treating their interns well – probably because they would find it difficult to claim they don’t have the cash to pay their staff properly. So some of them may well be telling the truth.

2) Did they tell the truth? From a quick glance at the list of members polled, I can see at least two companies that I know use unpaid interns – because they advertise them openly (although I’m not going to put their names here for legal reasons because calling someone a liar is libel – which in the UK you’re far more likely to be prosecuted for than persistent minimum wage evasion, what a joke).

Are they deliberately fibbing – or did the person who filled in the survey simply not have all the facts? Some of these companies are huge and interns are often taken on informally, without informing HR. Just because unpaid interns don’t appear in these companies’ paperwork, it doesn’t mean they’re not there.

3) Even if they don’t use unpaid interns, I bet their suppliers do – in which case they are indirectly profiting from unpaid workers, even if not directly. Agencies (like PR and advertising consultancies) have a particularly iffy reputation when it comes to using unpaid interns. To secure the contract from their client, they pitch a rate that is low. So, they take on unpaid interns so their profits can remain healthy. The client will never know that a lot of the ‘donkey work’ being done for them by their agency is actually being done by an unpaid worker.

When I expressed my puzzlement to the AGR’s spokesperson, here is what she said:

This may help clarify why many of Graduate Fog’s users have a different experience to tell of internships: 202 AGR members responded to the survey and a list of companies that took part is at the beginning. Analysis of the sector and size of organisations indicates that the sample is broadly representative of all AGR employer members. In this context, the survey findings can be seen as a barometer of the recruitment levels and practices of AGR employer members – an important segment of the overall graduate recruitment market. However, it should not be confused with the total graduate jobs market. That said, AGR recruiters are a large and powerful constituency, with the respondents to the Summer 2011 Review collectively expecting to offer a total of 21,507 vacancies in 2010-2011.

Hmm.

She also provided this statement from Carl Gilleard, the chief executive of the AGR:

“Internships are a great way for students to gain workplace skills and boosting your confidence. If you aren’t confident then you aren’t going to market yourself properly. All workplace experience is useful; even if it’s not immediately connected to your dream career, it’ll help you gain transferable skills. The AGR believes that employers should pay their interns.”

If you don’t know Carl, he’s considered the Godfather of the graduate recruitment world – he’s a well-known and much-respected man. He even gave me a quote for the back of my book Dude, Where’s my Career? The Guide for Baffled Graduates, which was pretty nice of him, since he didn’t know me from Adam.

Which is why I was particularly disappointed to read this in this weekend’s Guardian piece:

“Despite the increasing clamour for minimum wage payment to be enforced in all internships, Gilleard thinks smaller employers should be given leeway: “There might be circumstances where an employer could say, well I’ve actually got an opportunity here but there’s no way I could pay. But there is a cost of going to work and at the very least we would expect an effort on the part of the employer to meet those costs.”

Question: Since when was an organisation’s ability to pay their staff relevant to whether they are required to pay their interns a minimum salary of the National Minimum Wage?
Answer: It isn’t.

Where an intern qualifies as a ‘worker’ (with set hours and responsibilities, not just work shadowing) they must be paid the NMW for their work. The only exemptions from this are interns working for a charity or non-profit organisation – or doing an internship as part of their course. If an organisation can’t afford to pay their intern, they can’t have one – end of story.

I sincerely hope that Carl’s comments to the Guardian were an honest (if stupid) mistake – and I have already asked his press people to nudge him into doing more thorough research next time offers his opinion on such important matters to national broadsheets. Somebody in his position really should know the facts about the legalities of internships.

The AGR’s members seem to be relatively ‘clean’ when it comes to paying their interns – but we know that many others graduate recruiters are not. Which is why Gilleard must support interns’ rights to fair pay for their work – and must not undermine the work of those of use who are desperately trying to spread the word among young people, despite the best efforts of those who would rather keep you in the dark about the wages you are owed.

*Do the AGR’s figures sound dodgy to you?
Of all the internships happening right now, what percentage would you guess are paid – and unpaid?

Only 4% of companies admit using unpaid interns is a post from: Graduate Fog

Edinburgh Uni SELLS unpaid internships to American students

Tanya de Grunwald — Wed, 18 May 2011 12:28:41 +0000

EARNINGS TOTAL £500,000 FOR FLOGGING PLACEMENTS AT THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT

Earlier this month, Graduate Fog accused universities of sending mixed messages about unpaid internships – saying officially that they are against them, whilst simultaneously promoting them to students and graduates. Graduate Fog has also discovered that a number of institutions have been working with the highly controversial recruitment company Inspiring Interns, effectively making themselves a ‘broker’ in facilitating the practice of unpaid internships.

But shocking new evidence suggests that Edinburgh University has gone a step further – SELLING unpaid internships within the Scottish Parliament to wealthy American students from exclusive universities, at £5,560 a time. According to the Scotsman newspaper, the Russell Group university has made half a million pounds in the last decade.

According to the paper, students on these placements are expected to do demanding work for various MSPs – yet receive no payment for their labour.

A spokesperson for Edinburgh University told the Scotsman:

“The period which students spend in Parliament is an integrated, supported and assessed part of the wider internship programme. Our students are properly trained and informed to work with MSPs.”

Asked if the price of the placements made them only accessible to rich students, they said:

“Our programme delivers a quality educational experience. We believe that students on this programme are getting value for money and this is backed up by the excellent feedback we get from students and MSPs.”

A Scottish Parliament spokeswoman said:

“Individual members and parties take responsibility for intern arrangements.”

Graduate Fog is taking these pathetic responses as proof that neither Edinburgh University not the Scottish Parliament has any understanding of the seriousness of this situation – or the damaging consequences of their actions. Where is their explanation for this appalling lack of judgement? And where is their pledge that it will never happen again? And did you hear an apology? Because I didn’t…

*Should universities be allowed to earn extra cash by selling unpaid internships to foreign students?
Do you agree that universities need a consistent policy on promoting unpaid internships? Are you shocked that universities are taking advantage of young workers’ labour to line their own pockets?

Edinburgh Uni SELLS unpaid internships to American students is a post from: Graduate Fog

Why pay your young staff? Just put ‘intern’ before their job title

Tanya de Grunwald — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 13:49:38 +0000

NO JOKE – AD FOR ‘INTERN RECEPTIONIST’ IS SPOTTED

Are you a loaded employer who wants more staff – but is too tight-fisted to pay their wages?

Never fear! In 2010 you CAN get something for nothing!

Simply follow Graduate Fog‘s 10-step guide to screwing over your intern:

1. Advertise your unpaid internship as a real job. Post the ad for your vacancy exactly as normal – just remember to write the word ‘Intern’ in front of the job title. That way, hundreds of eager young workers will volunteer to do it for free! If you don’t have the stomach to do this yourself, ask an agency to do your dirty work for you. Don’t lose any sleep, there’s no legal comeback – HMRC aren’t interested and the Department of Business have said there’s no money to prosecute employers who do this.

2. Big up the cool factor. If your company does anything even vaguely ‘creative’ (however tenuous) or political, you’ve hit the jackpot. Just stress in your ad that you’ll ‘provide excellent training’ and that this is a ‘fantastic opportunity to gain experience and contacts in a competitive industry’ and watch the applications roll in. Big websites like Gorkana, Journalism.co.uk, w4mp and MusicJobs will be happy to post your ad. You could also try the university careers services, many of whom are happy to promote these placements, despite pledges from AGCAS that uni careers staff would help to stamp out unpaid internships, not add to the problem. Many of them have secretly switched sides, whilst still insisting to students that they’re working in their best interests.

3. Savour that ‘Simon Cowell’ feeling. As the applications flood in, remember to shout ‘MWAH-ha-ha!’ and rub your hands in glee at the vast number of desperate graduates fighting to get a toe-hold on the first rung of their career in your sought-after industry – and thank your lucky stars that you got in when you did. As you do this, reach down and pull the ladder up a little further.

4. Save your crappiest jobs for your intern. No role is too mundane to qualify as ‘experience’ for this ‘lucky’ young person – in fact, junior admin jobs involving taxi-booking, tea-making, Excel spreadsheets and data entry are the norm. Don’t worry that your intern might not be getting anything out of their time with you – they’ll be grateful just to be in your presence, ‘soaking up’ this golden opportunity.

5. Consider hiring a ‘super-intern’. Want someone experienced for a job that’s actually quite pivotal within your company? That’s no problem either. Just specify your wish list of skills. Don’t worry, you won’t have to pay any more for an experienced worker. Gone are the days when ‘responsibility’ was something that meant you paid a BIGGER salary. In 2010, the more responsibility involved in a role, the LESS you have to pay that person. (NB This ONLY applies to junior staff members – never fear, your pay packet is safe). Remember, you are GIVING your intern experience and responsibility. Why on earth should you pay THEM? If anything, they should be paying YOU.

6. String them along. Don’t let on that there’s no chance you’ll ever take them on full-time (why would you – when others will do it for nothing?) Just let your intern continue to think that a permanent, paid role with you is just around the corner just as soon as you have more ‘budget’. During their time with you, make your intern feel included and part of the team – so they won’t slag you off later on RateMyPlacement or InternsAnonymous. Include them in trips to the pub, but don’t worry about buying them a drink. In fact, they’ll probably buy you one, in the hope that it might persuade you to offer them a job. Happy days.

7. Trick them into thinking you’re a decent human being. Strange but true – if you’re ‘nice’ to your intern for long enough, they’ll eventually forget that you’re not paying them. It’s magic. With any luck, they’ll get so confused that they’ll even start attacking those pesky interns’ rights campaigners, like Graduate Fog, InternAware and Internocracy who are trying to insist that you put your hand in your pocket and pay your young staff properly. This ensures that the collective voice of unpaid interns remains confused and conflicted, so the issue is unlikely to be taken seriously any time soon – and there will always be a steady supply of interns for you to exploit in the future.

8. Plan for their replacement. Bored of your intern now? Simply dispose of them and select a replacement from the hundreds of other hopefuls. But remember – you don’t want to get stuck wasting YOUR precious time training the newbie for the job they’re going to do for you, unpaid. Instead, make sure your existing intern spends some of THEIR unpaid time teaching the new one everything they’ve learnt, before they head off to their next slave labour placement – sorry – ‘Interning opportunity’.

9. Don’t bother writing a reference – or reimbursing expenses. This will only take up more of your precious time. Instead, suggest that they write themselves a reference and email it to you to sign. Fingers crossed, they’ll find the task so cringe-inducing they won’t get round to it – so you won’t even need to lift your pen. Likewise, if you’ve offered to reimburse expenses from their time with you, ‘forget’ to tell them how to do this before they leave. With luck, they’ll be too intimidated to ask. If they do, simply ignore their invoice, in the hope they’ll be too embarrassed to chase payment. Given the choice of money vs ‘goodwill from an employer’ you’d be amazed how many will sacrifice the cash you owe them. This leaves you extra funds to spend on your next boozy board meeting at Gordon Ramsay.

10. Be inspired by pioneers in this field. Take notes from this ad for an ‘Intern receptionist’, which ran on MusicJobs last week:

Receptionist

Company: **subscribing individuals only**
Location: Brixton, London
Duration: 6 months

Job posted on: 27/11/10

Salary: Expenses

About The Job

We are an established, innovative, award winning music and multimedia London-based studio looking for an intern receptionist to join our fun and creative team.

You will be required to be flexible and work any 7 days of the week, 9.30am to 2.30pm or 2pm to 7.30pm for 6 months.

You will need to be computer literate, have excellent organisational and communication skills and maintain a professional manner, over the phone and face to face.

A passion for music and basic knowledge of studio equipment and music software is preferred. As our studio is based on a high street, you would need to be highly presentable to reflect the creative work place and be prepared to positively represent the studio to clients and industry known associates.

As well as the opportunity to put such a prestigious establishment on your CV, you will have the chance to develop your own artistic skills within a unique environment.

In fact, why stop there? Why not replace ALL your paid staff with unpaid workers?

With so much to gain, it’s incredible no-one’s thought of this brilliant plan before – isn’t it?

(PS. What’s that? The National Minimum Wage Act? No, never heard of it…)

Why pay your young staff? Just put ‘intern’ before their job title is a post from: Graduate Fog

Why is a LABOUR councillor hiring an unpaid intern?

Tanya de Grunwald — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 14:34:52 +0000

ED MILIBAND VOWED TO STAMP OUT UNPAID INTERNSHIPS – SO WHY IS LEANNE TARGETT-PARKER RECRUITING FOR ONE?

A Labour councillor – who is also a barrister specialising in employment law – has advertised for an intern to work unpaid in her offices in Lambeth, one of the ten most deprived boroughs in London.

A spokesperson for Intern Aware, Ben Lyons, has told Graduate Fog:

“Ed Miliband pledged to Intern Aware that as leader of the Labour party, he would do his utmost to stamp out unpaid internships. As such it is particularly disappointing that Leanne Targett-Parker, a Labour politician and employment lawyer, is refusing to pay her workers.”

One of Graduate Fog’s users – who we’ll call ‘Sally’ – emailed me a link to the ad, which read:

Intern Reference:27234
Posted: 15 November 10
Working for: Cllr Leanne Targett-Parker (Lambeth)
Salary: No salary but up to Zone 3 travel card included
Details: The job is located in Herne Hill and Brixton (Lambeth)

Skills required:

handling casework enquiries

conducting research

attending meetings

dealing with correspondence

local campaigning

updating website

drafting campaign literature

The post may require attendance of occasional evening meetings.

Close: Closing date 30 November 2010, interviews 1-3 December 2010 with a start date of 6 December 2010

Contact: Please send covering letter and CV to Leanne at [Email address withheld by Graduate Fog. Boy, I'm nice...]

Acknowledgements will be sent to all responses.

website http://www.welovehernehill.org.uk

Sally said she was contacting me because she was disgusted by Ms Targett-Parker’s response to her own concerns about whether the role should be paid.

When Sally emailed Targett-Parker to raise the question of whether this role should be paid the National Minimum Wage, the Labour councillor replied:

“The post is as it is and that is final. You are not obligated to apply.”

Charming.

Graduate Fog sees a lot of ads for unpaid internships – but not usually with the name of a Labour councillor as the ‘employer’. You’ll see from the screen shot (below) that Targett-Parker had also unashamedly used the Labour ‘rose’ as the graphic on the ad.

Why is this so significant?

First – and most obviously – because Labour is the party you’d expect to fight hardest for those who can’t afford to take unpaid internships – yet here they are, effectively making things even worse for those young people who can’t work for free.

They are also the party who brought in the National Minimum Wage – and the party that still has the closest ties with the workers’ unions. What are they doing advertising for an unpaid youngster to work for them for nothing?

The second reason it’s significant is because back in [WHEN], all five of the Labour leadership hopefuls – including the now leader Ed Miliband – signed InternAware’s pledge to help stamp out the practice of unpaid internships. And now, here they are, actually contributing to the problem.

Then, in a further plot twist, a quick Google search revealed that Ms Targett-Parker is also a barrister who specialises in… employment law. Honestly, you couldn’t make it up.

I’d seen enough. I emailed Councillor Targett-Parker:

From: Tanya de Grunwald
Subject: Your intern ad
To: Targett-Parker,Leanne Cllr
Date: Tuesday, 30 November, 2010, 13:29

Dear Leanne

My name is Tanya de Grunwald and I run a graduate careers advice website called Graduate Fog.

I am interested to see that you are openly advertising for an unpaid intern to help you with your work as Lambeth Councillor.

As we both know, unpaid internships have become commonplace. However, it is my belief that they are ethically dubious – and their legal status is unclear.

The first reason I am particularly surprised by your ad is because of the political party you represent in your borough. You may or many not be aware that all five Labour leadership candidates signed Intern Aware’s pledge which stated:

“I pledge that if I am elected leader of the Labour Party I will campaign for Labour’s Minimum Wage Act to be fully enforced so that employers must pay their interns what they are due.”

Unpaid internships exploit those who do them – and exclude those who can’t afford to do them. I would expect somebody from your party to be particularly concerned about the impact of this practice on social mobility.

The second reason I am surprised by your ad is because I understand that you are also a barrister at Temple Court Chambers – and that you specialise in Employment Law.

Perhaps you would be able to explain to me why you believe that you are not required to pay your intern the National Minimum Wage?

I look forward to hearing from you.

With many thanks,

Tanya

The following afternoon, I’d heard nothing, so I chased her:

From: Tanya de Grunwald
Fw: Your intern ad
To: Targett-Parker,Leanne Cllr
Date: Wed 1 December, 2010, 16:30

Hi again Leanne

I just wondered whether you plan to respond to the email I sent yesterday? I can give you more time if you need it, but shall we say that if I haven’t heard from you by the end of Thursday (tomorrow) then I will assume that you are declining to comment on this matter?

With thanks again,

Tanya

The next morning, this arrived:

From: Targett-Parker,Leanne Cllr
Subject: RE: Your intern ad
To: “Tanya de Grunwald”
Date: Thursday, 2 December, 2010, 11:05

Dear Tanya

I apologise for not replying to your email dated 30 November 2010. I have received a number of replies to my advert for an intern and had filed them to go through once the deadline had closed. Due to the subject title, I did this to yours. Yesterday, as you so rightly point out I am a barrister; I spent in court unable to respond to Council emails.

My advert for an intern is not to exploit anyone but to offer an opportunity to people who are struggling to find a position within politics or a related industry. As a councillor, I do not receive a budget for staffing as some MPs do and if the position was paid it would not be available. I am funding the travel out of my own pocket.

Having experienced first hand the difficulty of finding a position within my chosen career, I understand that any contact, experience and opportunity is greatly appreciated by both candidates and employers. It took me 4 years from being called to the Bar to find a permanent tenancy and I undertook any work experience and opportunity I could to enhance my CV and mark me out from other candidates.

The internship I am offering is a real opportunity for someone to experience campaigning, research and grass roots politics and I firmly believe that this is, in the circumstances, sufficient consideration for the position.

I hope this responds to your concerns.

Regards

Leanne

Cllr Leanne Targett-Parker
Labour Member
Herne Hill Ward

I responded:

From: Tanya de Grunwald
Subject: RE: Your intern ad
To: “Leanne CllrTargett-Parker”
Date: Thursday, 2 December, 2010, 17:33

Dear Leanne,

Many thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I believe you when you say that you are not deliberately looking to exploit the intern you plan to hire. I can also see that your beliefs about unpaid internships have been shaped by your own experiences during the early part of your career, which appear to have paid off, judging by how well you are doing now!

I too have worked for free for a while when breaking into journalism. At the time, I thought nothing of it – but now my views have changed as I see unpaid internships in a broader context. It is also worth pointing out that this was a number of years ago – and you may be unaware how much things have changed in recent years and how corrosive the practice of unpaid internships has become for young people hoping to start their careers today.

Unpaid internships exploit those who do them – and exclude those who can’t afford to do them. Whether or not the intern agrees to work for free – or feels exploited – they are being exploited if they are doing proper work for you, that has value, and you are not paying them. Your party fought for the National Minimum Wage because in this country we believe that nobody should have to work for less than a certain wage. That still stands – and it should apply to people at all stages of their career, and across all industries. If somebody is doing a proper day’s work, they should be paid a proper day’s wage.

While it may be true that you would not take on this intern if you had to pay them, I’m afraid I see that as no justification for your actions. I too would love to have an unpaid intern working for me, and I’m sure that I could argue that it as a fantastic opportunity for them to learn about journalism, running a website etc. But the fact is that I can’t afford to pay an intern, so I can’t have one. If you really need somebody in your office to do all the tasks listed in your ad, I suggest you find the money and pay them. If you don’t need someone enough to pay them, don’t hire them. That’s how jobs work, isn’t it?

And finally, even if we agree that this is a fantastic opportunity for somebody, do you not agree that the fact that the role is unpaid means that it will necessarily exclude candidates who cannot afford to work for nothing?

With thanks again

Tanya

Then – radio silence. No reply. Four days later, I wrote:

From: Tanya de Grunwald [mailto:tanyadegrunwald@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 06 December 2010 12:19
To: Targett-Parker,Leanne Cllr
Subject: RE: Your intern ad

Hi Leanne

Can you just let me know whether you plan to respond to my latest email (dated 2 December), or whether I should consider our discussion closed?

Many thanks again

Tanya

Two minutes later, she replied:

Dear Tanya

I have responded as fully as possible to your questions.

Regards

Leanne

Cllr Leanne Targett-Parker
Labour Member
Herne Hill Ward

I responded:

Okay Leanne – let’s leave it there. Can you just confirm how long this internship is for?
Thanks again
Tanya

Since when I have heard nothing.

Needless to say, I am extremely surprised to see that a Labour councillor in one of London’s ten most deprived boroughs – where 59% of children come from low-income families – seems to have so little understanding of the unpaid internships issue, and why the practice is so damaging to the prospects of so many of the UK’s young people.

Does Targett-Parker realise that in hiring an unpaid intern, she is only making matters worse for the next generation?

*What do you think?
Should a Labour councillor be hiring an unpaid intern? Do you agree that it is unfair on those who can’t afford to work for free – or is it ‘every man for himself’, when it comes to internships?

Why is a LABOUR councillor hiring an unpaid intern? is a post from: Graduate Fog

One in three call centre workers has a degree

Tanya de Grunwald — Thu, 23 Sep 2010 12:21:54 +0000

GRIM PROSPECTS FOR GRADUATES ARE “FANTASTIC NEWS” FOR EMPLOYERS

A senior jobs expert has clashed with appalled graduates by suggesting that news that a third of call centre workers in the UK now have a degree is “fantastic.”

That this figure has risen from 25% in 2009 does not surprise Graduate Fog.

I know that the number of good, graduate-level jobs available is dwarfed by demand – because you tell me every day.

For months I’ve been hearing tales of graduates who have taken jobs in pubs, supermarkets, building sites and fast-food chains. One Fogger told me he reached a new low by doing a trial day for a job at discount store Poundland – for which he wasn’t even paid.

However, what does surprise me is the unashamedly breezy response to this dire news among industry experts.

Apparently, it is good to see that young people who have spent £23k on their education (on the understanding that a degree would lead to a good job) are showing “flexibility and adaptivity” in “difficult economic times.”

They’re kidding, right??

Nope. In yesterday’s Guardian, Carl Gilleard, chief executive of the Association of Graduate Recruiters, was quoted as saying:

“In difficult economic times, graduates are showing flexibility and adaptivity. It is great news for call centres, who are getting added value, but the challenge for them will be holding on to those people when the job market improves.”

And it’s not just me who thinks he completely missed the point of this news. The Guardian’s piece triggered a string of angry comments from graduates who did not share Gilleard’s casual attitude towards their desperation to find work.

Meanwhile another industry expert Geoff Sims, MD of Hays Contact Centres, seemed similarly chuffed by the grim news, telling the Telegraph:

“Call centres are becoming more demanding of their staff so it isn’t surprising that the profession is attracting more people with degrees, particularly when we are still faced with a challenging economy and high unemployment levels.”

Are these people trying to be offensive?

This may be “fantastic news” for employers that university leavers are so desperate for work they are flooding them with applications – but surely they must realise this is somewhat less fantastic news for the thousands of graduates gutted that their education has not bought them a better job than this?

I really don’t mean to be offensive to call centre workers in general, but this needs to be said:

Graduates have not spent £23k on getting a good degree to make a career out of answering customer service queries.

If this kind of job is a likely outcome of investing in a university education, I think this should be made clear to young people before they sign up to such enormous debt.

If schools, universities and politicians are going to continue allowing – and encouraging – students to think that a degree will lead to a good job, they MUST make sure that the facts back this up.

Unless I’ve missed something, until now ‘call centre operative’ has not been a job that requires a degree. People go to university on the understanding that their investment will buy (yes buy) them a decent chance at opportunities that are a bit better than they the kind of job they would otherwise have ended up doing.

If this is NOT the case, then we must stop tricking our young people into going to university.

Do I think graduates doing these roles now are justified in feeling a little aggrieved? Absolutely. If it makes me a snob to ask why they got themselves into thousand of pounds worth of debt to make a career of answering customer queries, then okay – I’m a snob!

Whilst calling myself names, I am trying to reserve judgment on Gilleard, who is well known for being good egg and has previously been a friend to Graduate Fog (eagle-eyed Dude? readers may have spotted his kind endorsement on the book jacket).

Gilleard often comments in the press and usually gets this stuff right. Were his quotes taken out of context? Did he go on to say “Obviously, this isn’t such great news for graduates…” – but did the Guardian’s editors simply choose not to use it? I hope so.

Because if someone with Gilleard’s experience and influence really believes that this is “fantastic news” for anybody other than the employers, I fear we’re in big trouble.

*What do you think?
Is it “fantastic news” that graduates in £23k of debt are taking permanent jobs in call centres? Am I a huge snob – or do you agree that a university education should increase your chances of landing a decent graduate role?

One in three call centre workers has a degree is a post from: Graduate Fog

Is this the most shocking internship EVER?

Tanya de Grunwald — Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:53:01 +0000

WORK FOR ELEVEN MONTHS UNPAID – WITH NO EXPENSES

A hawk-eyed Graduate Fogger has spotted what could be the most outrageous ad EVER for an internship ‘opportunity.’

Powerful Media – “a cutting edge media consultancy firm based in Canary Wharf”, which produces The Power List: Britain’s 100 Most Influential Black People – has publicly announced that it is seeking an internet-savvy graduate (with knowledge of InDesign) to work 10.30am – 6pm, three days a week for no salary at all. There is no mention of paying expenses and applicants must “commit to at least 11 months in the role.”

This makes our previous winner Urban Outfitters’ nine-month unpaid internship (which at least offered travel expenses) look positively generous.

Weirdly, Powerful Media’s ad even boasts about how much proper work the intern will be doing – for their non-existent pay packet – explaining, “This is not a paid position, but it is also not a ‘making the tea’ type role. Instead you will undertake a variety of research, editorial and PR-related tasks.”

To make matters worse, when Graduate Fog contacted Powerful Media they claimed this was a “training internship as opposed to a working one” – whatever that means?

Then, even more bizarrely, they offered to change the wording of the ad, while giving no indication that the nature of the actual role would be reviewed. I told them that wasn’t good enough.

(Keep reading for full details of our email exchange below).

But first here is the ad, which was posted on journalism and PR listings website Gorkana:

Powerful Media Ltd, Intern
date posted: Thursday, 16th September 2010
date ending: Thursday, 30th September 2010

Powerful Media Ltd is a cutting edge media consultancy firm based in Canary Wharf. We undertake a broad range of services, including public relations strategy, online communications and publishing. We would like to offer a fantastic internship to someone interested in getting some hands-on journalistic experience with a touch of PR.

We are looking for a graduate who is intelligent and hard-working with bags of initiative. This is not a paid position, but it is also not a ‘making the tea’ type role. Instead you will undertake a variety of research, editorial and PR-related tasks, and learn a lot about the world of publishing along the way. All candidates must have good writing and grammar skills and be able to write at least a basic news article.

You should also have a full knowledge of Microsoft applications (Word/Excel/PowerPoint and Outlook), as well as a basic knowledge of InDesign. And it goes without saying someone who knows their way around the internet, is a must.

Our working hours are from 10.30 to 18.00, and we would be looking for someone who can work at least three days a week, AND can commit to at least 11 months in the role.

Please apply with covering letter telling us why you want to join our team, along with your current CV to: adenike@powerful-media.com

My email to them:

Hi Adenike

My name is Tanya de Grunwald and I run a graduate careers website called GraduateFog.co.uk. One of my users has seen your recent advertisement for an intern to work at Powerful Media for 11 months, unpaid, and asked me to drop you a line as issue of unpaid internships is one my users take very seriously.

You may not be aware but the role that you describe is likely to be illegal. The responsibilities that you outline, plus the set hours required, mean that officials are likely to deem that this role is clearly that of a ‘worker’ (as opposed to a ‘volunteer’ or someone just observing / ‘work shadowing’). As such, you are legally obliged to pay the minimum wage. The intern does not have the right to waive this wage by claiming they are happy to work for free in order to gain experience.

Here is some more information for you:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/7920381/Employers-warned-that-unpaid-internships-could-break-law.html

While everybody knows that unpaid internships happen – especially within journalism, marketing, PR etc – it is highly unusual to see a placement of this length (you state at least 11 months) advertised openly.

I will be blogging about this subject in the next day or two and would be grateful if you could supply a statement about this internship. If you were unaware of the legal situation around internships and are now willing to make this a paid placement, this would be a good opportunity to make this clear to my users. If you are planning to continue to run this placement unpaid as you believe it is lawful, I would be grateful if you could clarify on what grounds you believe this to be acceptable. Based on your response, I will decide whether to report this placement do the Pay and Work Rights Helpline, for HMRC to investigate.

In the meantime I would be grateful if you could drop me a line back to confirm that you have received this email. If I do not hear from you by 5pm tonight I will give you a call instead.

With many thanks,

Tanya

Their response:

Hi Tanya, in all honesty this is very much a training internship as opposed to a working one. But I see now how the way the ad is worded could imply something else. I have contacted Gorkana to change the wording on the ad, as I understand how it can be misleading.
Thanks for pointing this out to us.

Adenike.x

My reply:

Hi Adenike,

Thanks for responding so swiftly. However, I still have concerns about this matter.

I am unclear… Are you saying that you are going to change the nature of this placement to make it that of a true volunteer – or that you are simply going to alter the wording of the ad but keep the nature of the position the same?

For more information about the difference between an internship and true volunteering, I suggest you contact Internocracy. (www.internocracy.org). As I understand it, in order to be the position of a true volunteer (who need not be paid), the intern must be allowed to come and go whenever they wish – there no obligation to turn up at any set times at all, nor must they make any kind of commitment about how long they will do the placement for. They must also have no expectations or responsibilities placed upon them – no set tasks to be completed for set deadlines. Are saying that your internship will now fit this description?

Alternatively, if you intend to keep the nature of the role the same and are simply going to change the wording of the ad and call this position a ‘training internship’, I’m afraid that is not sufficient. The role of a ‘worker’ is defined by the nature of the work that a person does – not by the label you (or they) choose to give it.

Again, you should check the details with Internocracy, but as I understand it, if the intern is still required to work set hours and given set responsibilities and is not doing this placement as part of their course (you state this person must be a graduate), then the role is one of a ‘worker’ and as such must be paid the National Minimum Wage. Furthermore, you have stated that certain skills are required, which adds to the impression that this is a proper job which should be paid. Calling it a ‘training internship’ does not change anything if the nature of the position remains the same.

I hope that this is clear? If so, please let me know how you plan to proceed. Are you planning to make this intern a true volunteer? Or, if they nature of the internship will remain the same, will you be making this a paid role?

Thanks again,

Tanya

That was sent at 1.15pm yesterday and I have not heard anything since.

I’ve done some investigating and found that Powerful Media is not just any old PR firm – it is the company which produces The Power List: Britain’s 100 Most Influential Black People.

In the Gallery section of their website, you’ll find pictures of their staff schmoozing with then-PM Gordon Brown plus David Lammy, Paul Boateng, Baroness Scotland, Baroness Amos and ‘top cop’ Leroy Logan. To me, the fact that these people clearly have friends in high places makes their advertisement all the more shocking.

The Graduate Fogger who alerted me to the ad agreed – saying she was appalled by the nerve of Powerful Media. Louise Potter, 22, who studied History at the University of Leeds, told me:

“How can a company think it’s acceptable to recruit someone and not pay them for an such an incredibly long period of time – with absolutely no indication that there will be a paid position on offer at the end of the 11 months. I’d like to know how they expect their intern to support themselves for almost a year without a source of income.

“Their claim that this is a ‘training internship’ is crazy. There’s only so much you can learn from a company. It’s one thing for a couple of weeks as a way to build up your CV, make sure the industry is for you, and to actually learn something, etc. But after a certain point it just becomes working for free. And is it just me or has every company under the sun jumped on the unpaid internship bandwagon? Now it seems that everyone thinks it’s acceptable behaviour.

“I know that the media is a competitive industry, but doesn’t this mean that the most able candidates should get paid, entry-level roles rather than those financially able to stick it out at unpaid positions for the longest?”

*Is this the most shocking internship ad you’ve ever seen?
Do you accept Powerful Media’s explanation that this position is a ‘training internship’ – or is it a role that should be paid?

Is this the most shocking internship EVER? is a post from: Graduate Fog

Are there too many media graduates?

Tanya de Grunwald — Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:07:47 +0000

NOW 106 APPLY FOR EVERY JOB

Did you know that there are more people graduating from media-related courses this year than there are jobs in the whole of the British media?

If this is correct (it’s a quote – can anyone find official confirmation?), then it’s pretty shocking.

Should we be talking about the fact that we have record numbers of young people in record levels of debt rushing into an industry that is on its knees?

Are universities conning them out of their money?

Some other stats (definitely true this time!):

- There were 106 applications for every graduate media role in 2010. That’s a rise of over a fifth (22.6%) compared with 2009.

- We don’t yet have stats for 2010, but in 2008 and 2009 the number of graduate vacancies in media fell by 57%. That’s right – it more than halved.

And yet… the number of journalism and media studies students has never been higher:

In 1999, 7,400 students were on undergraduate media studies courses. Ten years later? There were 25,400. That’s more than triple.

In 1999, 1,970 students were on undergraduate journalism courses. A decade on? There were 8,095. Again, that’s over than three times more.

(When looking at postgraduate students on journalism and media studies course, the numbers are smaller but the sharp, upward trend is the same).

Plus, the financial prospects are pretty bleak:

The latest High Fliers report insists the average graduate starting salary in media is £31,500 – but Graduate Fog would love to know where these well-paid jobs are hiding? The average salary for journalists is £24,500 – but for a junior reporter on a local paper, the salary can be as low as £12,000. And then of course there are those of you who work for absolutely nothing… For months… With no guarantee of paid work, ever…

New research from university guide Push says that the students starting their degree in 2010 will be in an average of £25,000 of debt when they graduate.

If you’re a journalism or media studies graduate, I know I don’t have to tell you how tough it is to break into media is right now.

Two of the most popular pages on Graduate Fog are:

How to get into media

and

How to get a job in journalism

And you probably don’t want to read more ‘downer’ news, when you already feel like you’re walking through treacle.

Most likely, you’re working unpaid (or paid very little), gaining bylines and experience but with zero idea when (or if) your investment will ever lead to a full-time, paid job.

Many of you tell me you’re falling out of love with the industry you used to have enormous passion for.

I don’t meant to be the Angel of Death – really I don’t.

(And, incidentally, I think many of you who don’t ‘make it’ into media ‘proper’ could realise in a few years’ time that you’ve actually dodged a bullet. I fear the road is set to get even rockier in this industry, before things get better. Plus, I actually think media and journalism grads are in big demand in other industries – not because you can work a camera or know shorthand, but because of the sort of person you’re likely to be. On-the-ball, outgoing, motivated, interested…)

But I do think it’s important that we talk about what’s really happening here – to tens of thousands of you every year.

We have huge numbers of young people in enormous levels of debt rushing into an industry that is in big trouble – and showing no signs of recovering any time soon.

Ignoring this situation and telling you to “Follow your heart”, “If you want it badly enough, you’ll get there,” and “Don’t settle for anything less than your dream job” is unrealistic, bad advice.

And Graduate Fog doesn’t give bad advice.

Even if it is what you want to hear.

(Far better advice: Head for areas in this industry that are growing, not declining!)

I think the time has come to stop ignoring the facts.

These figures raise important questions that demand our attention.

So I’m going to ask them:

- Were media / journalism graduates made aware of your odds of ‘making it’, when you signed up? In introducing (and increasing) tuition fees, students have become customers – and universities have become businesses. These institutions now work on a principle of supply and demand. The more popular a course is, the more places they will create. Did you understand this when you enrolled? My instinct is that many students assume that getting a place on a journalism / media studies course means at least a decent shot at a career in these industries. (I know I would have done, aged 18). If when you started your course, you were asked to estimate your chances of landing a job in media once you finished your studies, would you have said “One in 104″? If not, do you think someone should have sat you down and talked you through your decision, before you enrolled on your course? Or would you have gone ahead anyway and hoped for the best?

- Is there any point in learning skills you won’t use? Employers bang on about wanting graduates with ‘skills’ – but surely these must match the kind of jobs available? Is it sensible that we are continuing to usher tens of thousands of students into courses that will equip them for an industry they have only a slim chance of finding paid work in? Surely a course is only ‘vocational’ if its students end up actually using the skills they’ve learned. No?

- If we agree that the mismatch of graduates versus jobs is a problem, should we cap the number of places on extremely popular courses like media studies and journalism? And whose job should this be? I’m not happy at the idea that a universities’ admissions officer might effectively be given the power to decide who gets to have a crack at ‘making it’ in these industries. (Who are they to make that call?) On the other hand, isn’t it borderline-unethical to take your money when they know your chances of finding a job (and then building a career) in media are so slim?

*Thoughts? Questions? Comments?
If you’d known how tough it would be to find paid work in media, would you have done a different degree? Or not bothered with uni at all? Do you think schools and universities should equip students with realistic information about their chances of ‘making it’ when the media industry is in crisis – or is it important that we let students follow their dream at all costs?

If you’re a media or journalism grad struggling to find work, are your career plans changing? Would you like to know more about what career options are open to you now, in related industries where you’d stand a better chance of finding paid work? Or do you just want to throw tomatoes at me for being such a downer when you’re trying to get your career of the ground? ; )

Are there too many media graduates? is a post from: Graduate Fog

Why business must do right by its young

Tanya de Grunwald — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:51:42 +0000

UNPAID INTERNSHIPS BRING SHAME ON BRITISH BUSINESS, SAYS GRADUATE FOG

This website today asks whether anybody in the business world is planning to locate their testicles, step forward and declare their support for the battle for fair pay for Britain’s army of young, unpaid interns.

In recent weeks, the interns’ collective voice has grown louder and clearer, thanks to top-notch campaigning by Internocracy and Intern Aware.

Respected think tanks like the IPPR have backed you up.

All five Labour leadership candidates have agree to back Intern Aware’s campaign for fair pay for interns.
The TUC and BECTU have supported it for a long time.

And last week our universities minister David Willetts stunned Graduate Fog by finally displaying what could be a backbone (?), when he declared that:

“The exploitation of interns is unacceptable and employment legislation must not be breached.”

Yet, amid all this discussion over unpaid internships, one group has been uncharacteristically quiet:

Business.

Today, Graduate Fog asks: Why the silence?

Cat got your tongue?

The last few weeks’ fierce debate on Graduate Fog have shown that big business must take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask, ‘Are we being fair to our young staff?’

The Graduate Fog community is unanimous that the answer is: NO.

It’s a fact that right now all around the UK hundreds of thousands of young people are still working unpaid (and illegally) as ‘interns’.

Meanwhile, an even greater number of you have been unfairly excluded from these opportunities because you cannot afford to work for free.

No doubt business leaders will insist that unpaid interns are gaining an excellent opportunity for some hands-on training.

(An argument so rotten it literally stinks).

They will claim that unpaid internships are legally a ‘grey area’.

(Which they aren’t).

They will duck responsibility and pass the buck to their suppliers.

(Yes, we’re talking to you, Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Superdrug, Weight Watchers and Morrisons.)

Or they will simply ignore our legitimate complaints that what they are doing is likely to be illegal.

(Shame on you, Urban Outfitters and Selfridges. Do you think this is just going to go away?).

The truth is that – as our nation’s young people slave for nothing, or are blocked from vital opportunities because of their economic background – only one group wins.

Business gains what must add up to millions of pounds worth of free labour – and saves similarly huge sums on training.

(Because in working for free you’re effectively training yourselves).

As you kip on friends’ floors, live on Savers pasta, sink deeper into record levels of debt and are still no closer to securing paid work, your fat cat employers continue to rake in huge salaries and massive profits.

Graduate Fog would like to know how these people sleep at night.

I am disappointed not to have had a reply from James Caan after my invitation to tea with me and my good friends at Internocracy, Intern Aware and Interns Anonymous. But I remain hopeful that a response will be forthcoming.

On Thursday, I sent an email to James’ daughter Hanah, who you’ll remember had sent a prompt (and charming) reply to my first email – but nothing at all to my second, inviting James to tea.

So I wrote for a third time:

Hi Hanah,

I just wanted to check that you had received my email sent on Monday? This story is being closely followed by Graduate Fog’s users, who are very much hoping James will take us up on the offer of a meeting with me, Intern Aware and Internocracy. Obviously it’s no problem at all if you need more time to talk it over with James – I just wanted to confirm that my email had definitely reached you.

Also, you see last weekend’s extensive news coverage about the issue of unpaid internships?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/7920381/Employers-warned-that-unpaid-internships-could-break-law.html
I think we are set to see a lot more coverage of this subject in the coming months.

Once again, we really would welcome the chance to make our case to James about this issue. Gaining his backing would be a huge boost to our campaign to get this issue taken seriously within the business world, especially given James’ background in recruitment. If he were to come on-board, we are confident that James would become an instant hero to young interns everywhere. It is estimated that there are currently 250,000 young people working as unpaid interns in the UK at the moment.

With many thanks again to you both for considering our invitation,

Tanya

I will let you know as soon as I hear from the Caan camp on this.

But, if James is not prepared to stand with us, perhaps one (or some) of his fellow Dragons will?

Duncan Bannatyne?

Peter Jones?

Deborah Meaden?

Theo Paphitis?

Or how about Sir Alan Sugar?

TopShop’s Sir Philip Green?

M&S boss Sir Stuart Rose?

French Connection founder Stephen Marks?

These people are not known for being shy.

So where ARE they?

Why aren’t they adding their voices to the battle for a fairer deal for our nation’s young people?

Do they think it’s fair that young people are the only group expected to work for nothing, when we agree that everybody else should be protected by the National Minimum Wage laws?

It’s my belief that for a long time the business community has known, deep down, that unpaid internships are unethical.

Now – thanks to Internocracy and the IPPR’s new report – it can be in no doubt that they also likely to be illegal.

But Graduate Fog knows that the next battle is enforcing the law.

Despite the TUC’s noble insistence that interns have the law on your side, I feel that advising you to demand the minimum wage from your employer effectively means throwing you to the lions.

I think unpaid interns are by far the most vulnerable groups in today’s workforce.

(Who else is too scared to ask for a wage, in case they get fired from a job they aren’t being paid to do?!)

How can you stand up for your right to the national minimum wage, whilst trying to make a good impression with tough bosses in competitive industries that have grown used to getting something for nothing?

In the current climate, I don’t think you can. You can battle for fair pay OR you can work to make a good impression and maximise your chances of being offered paid work. But with things as they are right now, I just don’t see how you can successfully do both.

You simply don’t have the support you need.

Some who disagree with me might say that things will only change if interns start pressing charges against employers who exploit them.

I disagree – and think it is unfair to ask (10? 50? 500?) young workers to make this sacrifice before your plight will be taken seriously.

I think pressing for a cultural shift in the business world is a better solution.

Admitting to using unpaid interns must become not just embarrassing but shameful.

Graduate Fog thinks it is time for high-profile chief executives and entrepreneurs to find their conscience and take the lead on this issue.

Can they show that British business is great enough to treat its young workers fairly?

*HAVE YOUR SAY
Should British business do more to support its young? Are you shocked at how many supposedly reputable companies openly abuse graduates’ desperation to enter the workforce? Or do you think companies have the right to behave like this, until interns stand up for your rights?

Why business must do right by its young is a post from: Graduate Fog

Seven big brands face unpaid intern inquiry

Tanya de Grunwald — Wed, 04 Aug 2010 11:19:14 +0000

TESCO, SAINBSURY’S, MORRISONS, SUPERDRUG, WEIGHT WATCHERS, SELFRIDGES AND URBAN OUTFITTERS IN THE DOCK

Graduate Fog has learned that the seven big brands caught advertising for unpaid internships could face official questioning – and even criminal charges.

The grilling is also likely to also involve the contract publishers Cedar, Seven Squared, River and Result, who placed the advertisements on behalf of Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Superdrug, Weight Watchers and Morrisons for interns to work on the brands’ customer magazines.

This weekend’s report by the IPPR and Graduate Fog’s friends Internocracy confirmed that all these internships are likely to be unlawful, stating:

“Private companies will normally be under a legal obligation to treat people employed on internship programmes as workers and to pay them the appropriate minimum wage.”

“Employers often mistakenly believe there is a ‘grey area’ around internships in the National Minimum Wage legislation that allows them to take on unpaid interns as long as both sides understand it is a voluntary position – this is simply not the case.

“The law is, in fact, very clear and the problem is a failure of enforcement.”

However, the inquiry may not happen.

It all depends on you.

Why?

Because we have a tough decision to make – and I’m not going to do it alone.

It’s like this.

The good folks at the Pay and Work Rights Helpline have told me that they will investigate any credible ‘intelligence’ about companies which could be undermining the minimum wage laws.

The informant doesn’t have to be the intern themselves.

It could be me.

All I need to do is submit the screen shots of the advertisements.

But there’s a ‘but’.

They can’t guarantee what will happen next.

The information will be handed over to the tax men at HMRC, who will conduct a full investigation – including contacting the companies concerned to see what they have to say for themselves.

I have no problem getting on the wrong side of these companies (I sense I may already have my grinning face pinned to a dartboard at Sainsbury’s HQ!).

However, I want to make sure we have thought this through before we go any further – and that I have the backing of the Graduate Fog tribe before I take action against these companies.

As I see it, there are several possible outcomes to taking this further and making our complaint official – and not all are 100% good:

1) The companies get a scare and decide to start paying their interns, keeping on those they have already hired. (*Best result)

2) The companies get a scare and terminate all seven internships (if indeed they have gone ahead – remember we only have ads recruiting for these roles). These are not replaced with paid roles.

3) The companies get a scare and terminate all unpaid internships in their entire company. These are not replaced with paid internships. (*Worst result)

See? This is quite a conundrum:

Do we press ahead and submit our evidence, show these companies that we mean business – but risk these internships being terminated altogether?

Or do we search for another, more diplomatic approach in the hope that we can maximise the chances of maintaining these internships in some form, for future graduates to benefit from? (Any ideas?!)

Sometimes, I find myself leaning towards throwing the book at these companies.

And – given my previous dealings with these companies – I’m losing faith that a diplomatic approach is even option.

Like on Monday when I received this email from Urban Outfitters, who you’ll remember we caught advertising for a NINE MONTH unpaid internship at their head office.

It read:

‘No comment Tanya’

That made me MAD.

I have also just read through the responses from all the other brands, which were – in my opinion – uniformly arrogant and dismissive towards our entirely legitimate complaints:

TESCO
“I worked for many years as a journalist and work experience/internships are an invaluable way of gaining experience in an industry that is very difficult to get a foothold in. I personally worked on this basis for two national newspapers and was extremely grateful for the opportunity.”

SAINSBURY’S
“This [internship] is [at] Sainsbury’s Magazine. They are separate from us. They are completely a separate commercial entity. I’m going to drop you an email but we’d be grateful if you could change those tweets because they are simply not correct. They are factually incorrect.” Referred me to the PA to the magazine’s Editor.

MORRISONS
“We believe the role was offered by our publishing company with the best intention of providing a valuable work experience opportunity.”

WEIGHT WATCHERS
“As you know already Weight Watchers magazine is run by River Publishing, therefore they will be coming back to you with a response in due course as it is an issue relating to them directly that you are questioning.”

SUPERDRUG
“We work with a number of agencies who may have people on work experience in their office working on their projects. We have asked them to clarify the status of all such individuals.” I have heard nothing since.

SELFRIDGES
I have chased this several times but I am still awaiting a response.

URBAN OUTFITTERS
“No comment Tanya.”

When I read these outrageous messages, I think the time has come to take a stand against companies who think it is reasonable to ask young people to work for nothing – when every other employee receives a salary.

However, the idea that my actions could terminate a young person’s internship makes me really uncomfortable.

If a Graduate Fogger is struggling to find paid work, I always advise you to take volunteer work or unpaid work if you can – because doing something is better than nothing. Not just for your CV, but also for your confidence and motivation. I really believe this to be good advice.

Then again, I also believe that the unpaid internships culture is corrosive. We have already seen that it not only exploits those who take these placements (many of whom can only just afford to do them – we know that not all unpaid interns are princesses). It also excludes those who can’t afford to do them.

What’s more, it seems that this trend is spreading into new industries every day. Something needs to be done.

So here we have a clear case of doing the best thing for the common good – versus the individual.

My hope is that if unpaid internships are stopped, the companies who run them will have to start taking the same people on – but with pay.

We know that unpaid interns are doing proper, necessary, valuable work at the moment – so surely these companies won’t be able to do without you altogether?

However, it may not be this straightforward. For example, if employers have to start paying interns, they may only take on half the number. What happens to the other half?

Urgh – my brain hurts.

What do you think?

*Whose side are you on?
Should the greater good come before the individual?

IF YOU’VE NEVER COMMENTED BEFORE ON GRADUATE FOG – PLEASE DO SO TODAY!
If I don’t hear from enough of you, I won’t submit our evidence. Thanks – x

Seven big brands face unpaid intern inquiry is a post from: Graduate Fog

Dragons’ Den multimillionaire wants you to work for free

Tanya de Grunwald — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 11:10:44 +0000

JAMES CAAN RECRUITS FOR AN UNPAID INTERN – SO GRADUATE FOG INVITES HIM TO TEA

Tycoon and Dragon’s Den star James Caan has advertised for a three-month internship, paying expenses only.

The job description is the longest Graduate Fog has ever seen for an internship, coming in at close to 1,000 words.

The ad (pasted in full below) outlines a long list of responsibilities and qualities that the successful candidate must have.

This role is not just tea-making and post-sorting. And if it was within the private sector, it would be illegal.

However, the multimillionaire’s people have told me it is perfectly lawful – because it is within the James Caan Foundation, a registered charity.

And when I checked with the Pay and Work Rights Helpline, they confirmed that Caan – worth £70m – has done nothing illegal.

Because this internship is within a charity, this person can be classed as a ‘voluntary worker’ – who is not entitled to the National Minimum Wage.

I am flabbergasted.

I would like to be clear that I am not suggesting that Caan has done anything illegal.

He hasn’t.

Nor am I suggesting he has acted maliciously. No doubt he genuinely thinks this internship is an excellent opportunity for somebody.

What I am suggesting is that this ‘voluntary worker’ loophole in the law does not give adequate protection to graduates trying to break into the charity sector.

In effect, I feel this means they are denied the protection that their friends trying to break into private sector industries receive from our National Minimum Wage laws (in theory at least!)

Decide for yourself.

Do you think this role should be paid or unpaid?

James Caan Foundation Internship 2010 Reference:25522
Posted: 23 July 10

working for James Caan, private equity investor and panellist on BBC2′s Dragons’ Den

salary none

details James Caan, private equity investor and panellist on BBC2′s Dragons’ Den is looking to hire a candidate to intern in his direct office, working on a specific 3 month project, working within his Foundation.

The James Caan Foundation (JCF) was set up in 2006 to fundamentally assist with educating some 6 million children in Pakistan currently not enrolled in schools. Furthermore, the JCF continues to support charities in the UK working towards a number of different initiatives ranging from cancer care to providing equal opportunities for youth, but it also seeks to promote greater awareness for the developing world.

One of the key areas on which the successful candidate will be working, will be the British Pakistan Foundation. The BPF is a new initiative set up in the UK to provide a platform from which to engage with Pakistan related issues. The board of the foundation, of which James Caan is the chair, is comprised of exemplary knowledge and experience of the region, including members of British society with strong links to Pakistan. The foundation works towards addressing key areas within Pakistan such as Healthcare, Education, Power Generation, Food Supply, Inward Investment, and water supply on a large scale. It will also strive to improve the perception of Pakistan in Britain and the way in which Pakistanis view Britain. The underlining aim of the foundation is to bridge the gap in perceptions, general sentiment and relations between the two nations.

Objective of the Internship

Managing the role of the JCF in the BPF

As a new foundation the BPF will need a lot of support. You will play an essential role in the organisation and the coordination of the BPF, and be responsible for the smooth running of the Board and its agenda. This will include:

Coordinating the very high profile board

Your primary responsibility will be to support the project in its entirety. You will need to coordinate it and maintain delivery.

The Board of The BPF consists of a number of high profile individuals from various professions, all with a high level experience and knowledge, who will all have ideas and input with regards to direction and the projects. In order for the Board to operate successfully it will need a high level of organisation and support. This will involve:

Action monitoring

Minute taking

Organizing meetings

Setting the agenda

You will be responsible for ensuring the balance, coverage and workability of the agenda. It will be your responsibility to understand the individual members’ contributions and subsequently set the agenda.

Working with key players to ensure that the BPF achieves its goals

An exciting aspect of this role will be the chance to meet, correspond, and build relationships with a number of high profile individuals from diverse professional backgrounds. This important part of the internship will involve working closely with the Board; with members of the American (APF) and Pakistani counterparts; with key figures in the British Pakistani community; with government officials, in order to foster engagement. It will be your responsibility to develop these relationships and promote the BPF as a forum/platform for the coming together of various stakeholders in The BPF’s mission.

The BPF could be a serious and influential organization. With the ability to use the high profiles of the boards and members, it has the potential to influence UK policy towards Pakistan. One aspect of your role will be involved in these projects and issues.

You will also need to engage with various members of the community from all sectors and professions. This falls under the role of developing the BPF in its functional capacity as a platform for engagement. You will have the responsibility of stimulating and facilitating this engagement, and you will need to be proactive in your approach of

Raising awareness

Facilitating interaction between members Philanthropists, business men and woman, social entrepreneurs, civil society activists, and general members of the community.

The BPF Launch

The Launch event will require a high level of organisation and planning in terms of logistics and PR. You will be responsible for inviting honorary guests and. For this role it is essential that you will be:

Proactive

Highly organized

Able to use initiative

Creative

Target-driven

The long term goal of this internship is for you to contribute to the development and success of the BPF in its early stages of operation.

From your point of view, this is an opportunity where you will work in a formal working environment, with project plans, deadlines, deliverables, reporting to a manager, and having to deliver your best at every opportunity. Working for an HNWI gives you the opportunity to really make a difference as you will be working with James’ immediate projects team.

Job Location: Mayfair, Central London

closes 30 September 2010. Start date ASAP contact Please send CV and covering letter to…

Before I was made aware of the ‘voluntary worker’ loophole, I wrote to Caan’s people to express my concern about the legality of the position.

I wasn’t very nice.

His spokesperson (his daughter Hanah) promptly sent this reply:

“Dear Tanya,

Thank you for taking the time to let me know of your concerns regarding the current situation with internships and the National Minimum Wage.

I should point out that the internship on offer is to work for the James Caan Foundation, registered charity number: 1136671. Under s 44 National Minimum Wage Act 1998, workers employed by charities, voluntary organisations and associated fund-raising bodies are not entitled to the national minimum wage. This exemption is designed to allow people who genuinely wish to work without profit for good causes to do so.

Perhaps this wasn’t made clear in the internship brief posted on the website. I will make this much clearer now so that there is no confusion as to the nature of the internship.

Do let me know if there is anything else with which I can be of assistance.

Warmest wishes.”

Compared with the responses I’ve had from Tesco, Sainsbury’s, etc, this email was delightful.

And it turns out that she’s right.

Because the employer is a charity, this role can be classified ‘voluntary worker’.

It may be legal – but is it fair?

A document by the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills makes it clear that calling someone a volunteer doesn’t make them a true volunteer in the eyes of the law – if their responsibilities are that of a ‘worker.’

Private sector employers can be prosecuted for failing to pay their ‘worker’ interns.

Can anybody explain to me why this should be different for interns working for charitable organisations?

Other, more senior people who work within charities get paid, so why not the intern?

From Hanah Caan’s email – and further research online – it seems that this loophole is there to protect the ability for people to do genuinely altruistic volunteering – for their local soup kitchen or church, for example.

Of course we don’t want employment laws so rigid that doing a good deed for your community is made impossible (because the soup kitchen / church is legally obliged to pay you for this).

But it’s my opinion that there is a big difference between a middle-aged housewife who chooses to volunteer one night a week in her local soup kitchen – and a young graduate who takes a full-time, unpaid job with a TV entrepreneur’s charitable foundation because s/he hopes it will lead to paid work in the future.

In my opinion, the first is volunteering.

The second is ‘volunteering’.

Although I would like to say again that James Caan has done nothing illegal (nor malicious) here, Graduate Fog has discovered that this is not the first time he has publicly displayed his difficulty with understanding the many (and sometimes subtle) points of the unpaid internships debate.

In June, Caan penned a piece for the Daily Telegraph entitled Graduates should work for free to get ahead, stating:

“Working for free has its drawbacks, but it will prove to be a great investment in the longrun.”

“…Last week I highlighted the importance of a carefully crafted CV and with work experience the same attention to detail applies.

“You’re not applying for a salaried position, but that shouldn’t stop you using your CV to highlight your achievements, transferrable skills and potential.

“Don’t expect opportunities to come to you on a plate: do some investigative work and contact local companies you’re interested in to see if you can work with them.

“Search for internships online, in the trade press and local listings.”

Like many people in the business world, Caan appears to be unaware that the internships debate has moved on significantly in the last few years. He also seems unaware that hundreds of thousands of young people are now being exploited by companies simply looking for ways to cut staff and training costs – and that (in most cases) this is illegal as well as unethical.

As Kayte Lawton, spokesperson for think tank IPPR said this weekend:

“Employers often mistakenly believe there is a ‘grey area’ around internships in the National Minimum Wage legislation that allows them to take on unpaid interns as long as both sides understand it is a voluntary position – this is simply not the case.

The law is, in fact, very clear and the problem is a failure of enforcement.”

As Caan is a high-profile UK businessman, I think it would be invaluable to persuade him that unpaid internships are not a fair, reasonable or sensible solution for anybody. I would love him to become a champion of this issue, using his profile to raise awareness throughout the business community.

I think Caan could use a cup of tea and a chat with Graduate Fog and my good friends at Intern Aware and Internocracy.

So that’s exactly what I offered in this email (sent this morning):

Dear Hanah,

Thank you for your email.

I have now checked my facts and found you are correct in stating that the internship offered at the James Caan Foundation is within the law. I would like to apologise if my earlier email was rude.

However, while I accept that this position is not illegal (because it is within a charity), I remain concerned that it is not fair. I do not believe that this is what the ‘voluntary worker’ exemption was designed to do. I fear that the person who takes this role with the James Caan Foundation is unlikely to be a true ‘volunteer’ – and is more likely to be a young graduate desperate for an opportunity to work alongside Mr Caan, in the hope that it could lead to permanent paid work with him in future – or at the very least add weight to his/her CV.

I am not suggesting that Mr Caan or his organisation have acted maliciously in running this ad – or the internship. No doubt he genuinely thinks that this placement offers an excellent opportunity for somebody. However, I believe Mr Caan maybe unaware of how the unpaid internships culture has escalated in recent years – and is now contributing to a situation where it is only the well-off, London-based graduates who can afford to gain the best experience, as many of these opportunities are unpaid. Poorer (better?) candidates who live outside London and can’t afford to work for free are excluded.

As you may be aware, last week all five candidates for the Labour leadership committed to support Intern Aware’s pledge for fair pay for all interns. This weekend, a report by Internocracy and the IPPR stated that interns are entitled to the minimum wage, prompting universities minister David Willetts to make his strongest statement yet on this subject, saying “The exploitation of interns is unacceptable and the employment legislation must not be breached.”

I would very much like to invite Mr Caan to join me and my friends at interns’ rights groups Intern Aware and Internocracy for a cup of tea. We would welcome the opportunity to bring Mr Caan up-to-date with this issue and would like to invite him to become a business champion for this cause. We could really use someone fighting our corner!

I have just posted this letter to my website, to keep my users up-to-date. We look forward to hearing from you.

With many thanks,

Tanya

So there you have it.

Today has turned out to be the day that I asked James Caan to tea.

It’s a funny old world.

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Or should internships within charities be exempt from the minimum wage laws?

Dragons’ Den multimillionaire wants you to work for free is a post from: Graduate Fog