It’s no secret that there’s no love lost between Graduate Fog and the university careers advisers.
So when Dr Dan Ferrett, from Oxford Brookes’ University Careers and Employment Centre, stepped forward to answer the questions we know you want to ask him, we had to give the guy some credit.
Especially as he had no idea how harsh our questions were. The list kicked off with ‘Why is uni careers advice so bad?’ – and got progressively meaner.
- Is uni careers advice stuck in the past?
- Whose fault is it that so many students never visit their careers service?
- Does a sinister careers ‘mafia’ put its own interests before those of students and graduates?
- And is it true that most uni careers advisers have never had a proper job? (Ouch!)
To be fair, Dr Dan didn’t storm off in a huff – he answered every one of our questions. Here’s how our (pretty uncomfortable) chat went…
Why is university careers advice so bad?
“I don’t think it is! If someone has not found their ideal job on leaving university or started a postgrad course that didn’t work out after talking to an adviser then that’s hard and I can see how the narrative that ‘careers advice is so bad’ gets off the ground. I think that some people present an over-simplified picture of the graduate labour market. We are all doing a good job under trying circumstances at the moment so I disagree that university careers advice is so bad. We try and inspire people to take their life experience, skills, motivations and values and develop them further.”
Do careers advisers know that what they’re doing isn’t working? Why do they refuse to acknowledge it?
“I don’t agree that what we do isn’t working. We get some fantastic positive feedback from the work we do in the curriculum – from the regular fairs we put on and from successful individuals who send us cards saying “thank you” for supporting them through a gruelling recruitment process. What is your measure of ‘isn’t working’? If you are referring to the relatively high number of graduates now unemployed then I suggest that you are looking in the wrong place.
“It’s unrealistic to suggest that university careers services can come up with comprehensive solutions to a global economic crisis. We can do our best given the current difficult circumstances but we can’t overcome them. I would say that it has less to do with refusal to acknowledge or accept failure and more to do with circumstances beyond our control. It’s also unrealistic to suggest that we can somehow rig the labour market so that every graduate who leaves university can walk into a graduate level job. Sorry to be the prophet of doom but life is not like that.”
NEXT: HAS A CAREERS INDUSTRY ‘MAFIA’ KEPT UNIVERSITY ADVICE STUCK IN THE PAST?
Careers Partnership (UK)is an independent career counselling organisation working with under-graduates and graduates – we share Graduate Fog’s view that university careers services often don’t pass on details of outsider organisations as freely as you’d expect.
It’s understandable the careers services want to protect their clients from us private-sector “vampires” … however, being fee-funded, we spend a lot more time and professional expertise helping each individual than they can afford to do, resulting in better outcomes for our clients. The mature students in particular benefit from the extra input.
I actually think part of the problem is not whether the career services are doing a good job but the lack of use they get from students. If more students used their career service i reckon the reputation of career advisors would go. Most people who think the careers service is rubbish is basing it on the fact they’ve never come across it.
The question then becomes…is that down to students or career services not marketing themselves appropriately. Personally i think a trip to the uni careers service should be mandatory for students at the start of each academic year!
The blame for the plight of unemployed and underemployed graduates should be be placed squarely at their own feet. Many are uninformed and unprepared and many more a just lazy and spoiled. They spend hours researching a single essay topic and no time at all on researching the rest of their lives. They expect Careers Advisers to do it for them and when they don’t like the answers – guess who they blame, and don’t get me started on the ones who criticise Careers Services but have never set foot in the place!
One of the often overlooked problems with University Careers Services is that they often paint a shiny portrait of even the most difficult graduate employment pictures… partly due to the fact that to display the reality would reflect poorly on their University, a herd mentality overplaying prospects when there are none.
To place the blame on graduates themselves is not only unduely harsh, but also obsfiscating the reality of dreams being dashed on the shores of regressive fact. Few, if any graduates are likely to actually obtain the job they planned and hoped for, instead having to take the first job that comes along in the hope of escaping in the future.
Perhaps it is time that Career Advisers actually starting playing within the real world from secondary school, teaching people how to engage in the employment market and actual chances of careers. Obviously though, if they were to bring reality into employment concepts, few would chose to take on higher education escept for professional qualification degrees, and then where would higher education be? You think it is underfunded now, then take out the 60% non professional degrees and see what happens to our universities.
Business has to take a stake in education that they require to fill high level positions, research and economic reality. Too long have they cherry picked without paying into the very thing they require. Highly educated, motivated people. Business Tax based on educational and trainee positions offered? You want graduates, maybe you need to start paying for them. Or, alternatively, give my parents a refund on the taxes they paid thinking that I would get free higher education only for me to have to take £17,500 in debt to do so, and then be unable to find a graduate placement fitting my degree quality.
From Abintegro’s (career tools provider) experience we see careers services up and down the country working tirelessly and innovating to do the best they possibly can for students and graduates, working with very limited resources. Similarly, there is good advice and resources available from private, independent organisations.
I’d like to see 2 things:
1) Employers being more willing to engage with universities to educate and excite students about the world of work. The big grad recruiters already do this well but the voice of the SME and ‘non-grad scheme’ really needs to be heard.
2) Universities moving the practical process of searching and applying for jobs up the agenda, perhaps with some form of metric in place, and that means a step-change in funding for the careers and employability functions.
This is a interesting interview and certainly addresses many of the ‘sacred cow’ issues of careers advice for the under 25s. The fact is that many careers services or individuals within them do unfortunately live up to their stereotype as do many students. Others do a great job. That said, mud slinging doesn’t get anyone anywhere, everyone needs to raise their game if they want to get a decent job. It is very frustrating that Prospects tend to dominate the careers sector in the same way that Job Centres appear impervious to the existence of modern recruitment strategies and tools in the market today. As the parent of a newly fledged grad it’s a topic I feel very strongly about. That’s why, with with the help of a number of currently unemployed undergrads and some helpful contacts and recruiters, we have launched http://www.mygraduatecareer.com – the ‘alternative’ careers library. We’ve featured the ubiquitous Prospects but also as many of the other ones we can find too – including Graduate Fog. Maybe we can clear both the fog and the cartel if we work a bit more cooperatively together.
Would closing university career services at most universities make ANY real difference?