BUT INDUSTRY EXPERTS CLAIM THERE’S NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!
A new survey has revealed that there are now 83 applicants for every graduate job – but industry experts have stunned Graduate Fog by insisting the new figures are not cause for concern, with one even saying he is “cautiously optimistic” about today’s findings.
Accoding to the Association of Graduate Recruiters (AGR), the number of people applying for every graduate vacancy has doubled since 2009, as three successive years of university graduates have struggled to find a spot for themselves in today’s tough job market. This number is now at its highest level since records began. But two leading experts have warned that the numbers are misrepresentative of the reality for graduate job-seekers – and that the graduate job market is making a good recovery.
Graduate Fog begs to differ. Regular readers will know that we have been concerned for a long time about what is really happening to graduates when they leave university. For months we have warned of a looming graduate unemployment crisis. Too many graduates + too few vacancies + too many unpaid internships = potential for disaster.
In the last year, the mainstream debate has focussed on student tuition fees – and the media, politicians and universities have been ignoring what is happening to young people after graduation. As Graduate Foggers know only too well, it is a fact that many of you are really struggling to find proper, paid permanent graduate jobs. Or, in fact, any jobs. Many of you say that all there is are unpaid internships which promise to lead to paid work – but somehow never do.
Yet somewhat bizarrely, despite these new numbers, nobody seems to be admitting how bad things really are. Carl Gilleard – the Chief Executive of the AGR and the ‘godfather’ of graduate jobs – insisted that today’s new figures showed that there were “some very encouraging signs for graduates”:
“Not only have starting salaries increased, albeit slightly, the number of vacancies continues to increase which can only be seen as a good sign. I am cautiously optimistic about today’s findings, which provide a welcome indication that the graduate recruitment market is beginning to overcome the impact of the recession.”
Eh? Are we looking at the same numbers, Carl?
Meanwhile, Martin Birchill of High Fliers told the Independent that he put the new figures down to students and graduates being more organised about their job hunt – and applying for more vacancies. He insisted:
“The reality is that the graduate job market as a whole is making a good recovery. Vacancies for graduates have now increased for two years running and although recruitment may not be quite back to pre-recession levels, all the signs are that this growth will continue.”
Really? Is it just me or is the backlog of graduates who have been unable to find work in the last couple of years starting to look like the ‘elephant in the room’? Are they really going to keep denying that you lot exist in huge numbers? And that you’re really angry about what’s happened? It seems so.
The only news Graduate Fog is encouraged by today is that universities minister David ‘two brains’ Willetts has finally properly acknowledged that a degree is not always worthwhile investment for young people. (Has the second brain been squashing the first one and preventing either from working up until now?) He told BBC Breakfast this morning:
“There are some courses that are far better at preparing young people for the world of work than others. At the moment, the student finds it very hard to get that information… All that information should be out there, and we are insisting for the first time that it should be available for prospective students.”
Wow, he really is a genius. When students are paying nine grand a year, I guess it is only fair to give them the information they need to make sure they don’t end up buying a lemon. However, this is major progress. Until now Willetts has continued to trot out the fib that graduates earn £100,000 more in a lifetime than non-graduates – an ancient stat that Graduate Fog understands was statistically iffy right from the start.
While Ministers have singled out computer gaming studies as an example of one such ‘dead end’ course which might require ‘naming and shaming’ on the planned league tables, my concern is for the mushrooming number of places on ‘sexy’ courses like journalism and media studies, which are easy for universities to ‘sell’ – but which too rarely lead to paid jobs in those professions for their graduates. It is my opinion that when universities sell these courses knowing that only a miniscule proportion of graduates will find paid employment in these industries that is tantamount to theft.
I am also confused to learn from the AGR’s statistics that the ‘average’ graduate staring salary is about to hit £25,500. Where are all the graduates earning this kind of money?
Most of the graduates I hear from are starting on salaries closer to £18,000, even in London. I suspect this new figures is skewed by the graduates who go into very high paying sectors like finance. I think a median salary would be a more accurate reflection would be a more accurate reflection of what’s really going on out there.
*Are politicians and experts ignoring the growing problem of graduate unemployment?
Are these new figures a sign that something is seriously wrong in the graduate job market – or are you convinced by their argument that things are looking up? And do you know anyone whose starting salary was £25,500?
And do you know anyone whose starting salary was £25,500?
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/microsites/graduates/schemes_benefits.asp
@PeteJenkinson
Ha! What about in the private sector?!
My point is that beside the big graduate schemes, I haven’t heard of many grads earning more than £18k… But maybe that’s because so many Foggers are trying to crack journalism and PR, which pay outrageously badly!
This is very worrying. Most of us will probably never have a well paid job – something that I was conned into believing would happen. I have been out of university for a year and have figured out that I might not ever get that graduate job.
It’s hard to get just about any job when you are a graduate. Companies wanting a sales assistant or a trainee butcher (you showed that) won’t even touch you so I have begun taking my degree off applications for jobs where I don’t need a degree and the result has been more interviews.
I recently attended a job interview for a part time (16 hours pw) sales assistant for a jewellers. I was told that 160 people applied and I was one of the lucky 9 that got to the interview stage.
I also applied for sales assistant role with a well known high street company with a branch in Middlesbrough. Managed to get to the interview stage and that’s it. I then saw the same company advertising for a sales assistant role in a branch a few miles away so decided on an experiment. I filled in their application and made it clear that I do have a degree. Let’s see what happens now. I’ll give it a week to see if I get to the interview stage.
Anyway… I have kept in touch with 5 people from uni. 2 of them have grad jobs but one was a mature student when he went to uni and had extensive management experience. The other will soon be a supermarket manager. The 3 that don’t have grad jobs are either unemployed or are working in a fish and chip shop.
It’s not all bad. We are getting interviews and I am still waiting for a company to get back to me so could have a grad job by tomorrow night – if not then I have 3 interviews lined up in next 2 weeks but maybe it’s time I gave up?
My point is that beside the big graduate schemes, I haven’t heard of many grads earning more than £18k….
Errr, no it wasn’t your point was a simple, plain question.
“And do you know anyone whose starting salary was £25,500?”.
If you are having trouble using the English language then please inform us within your blog and we readers will make suitable allowances.
@Pete Jenkinson
Actually, my original question was whether you knew anybody earning £25,500. It was not an invitation for you to post any old ad on my website. I know there ARE jobs out there paying this – but I don’t believe there are that many. I was urging users to share their own experiences – as Wayne did.
When you posted the London Underground ad, I actually thought you were being funny (Are London Underground the only people who pay their graduates fairly anymore?!) Forgive me if I misjudged this.
You are always welcome to disagree with anything you find written on Graduate Fog – but I must ask you to be more careful how you express your views / anger / frustration. As you know, this is a website that isn’t afraid of a bit of conflict (!), but I do ask that when people post comments they do so with respect for other users – including me. Anything that borders on abusive (again, including towards me) will be removed. My website, my rules.
If my earlier comment (or any of my posts) are unclear, I apologise. Please remember that I am unpaid for all the time I spend on GF and so am juggling it with my regular paid work. Yesterday was also particularly busy as I had a piece on the Guardian’s website and they ask that contributors respond to comments from their users, so I was doing that at the same time.
You are very welcome to keep using this website – as I say, conflict is good! But next time, please watch your tone. At the moment the comments system is set up so that comments are instantly approved unless i unapprove them, and it would be a shame if I had to change this to go back to me having to approve everything manually as that means comments don’t go live in real time.
It really is difficut to get a graduate job these days. It took me six months to find one when I graduated last year. I found this site to be quite useful in the end: IT Graduate Jobs
My salary is 17k after one years exp. Now I have 2 years I have been told I can get one that is £25k starting… So where the government is getting £25k for those straight out of uni I do not know!!
I do not think this statistic is representative of the graduate market. It is clearly very challenging but it is not as bad as everyone in the media seems to want to promote. The AGR represents 200 of the largest and most high profile employers, these employers do not make up the majority of the market. These employers will also have a much higher number of applicants than other less high profile employers.
Do not quote me on the exact number but I remember a statistic from a few years back saying that only 17% of graduates go onto a formal graduate scheme. None of my friends took this pathway but they are all now in professional level roles or earning equivalent salaries, often taking the scenic route via various roles and sectors. This is the reality of a modern career.
Another relatively obvious point is that students are generally making more applications and in some cases adopting a scatter gun approach. The 83 applicants for each role will often be many of the same people applying for multiple jobs. Often when students send a high amount of applications, the quality drops and generic answers become common. It is much better to make five high quality and targeted applications than twenty generic ones.
Company research is also sometimes weak. All applicants should know an employer’s products/services, markets/clients, innovations/USP’s, competitors and the challenges facing the sector. You need to able to demonstrate a real passion and well researched reasoning for selecting the employer. That said, I realise many students are being rejected having jumped through a huge number of hoops.
Universities, in some cases, need to make a better job of promoting SME’s and students, in some cases, need to work harder to find these opportunities. The obvious choice will always be the most competitive. SME’s can often provide faster progression and real responsibility at a very early stage.
Students can access online vacancy boards at their university and careers advice up to two years after graduation, many of these roles will not be advertised nationally and struggle to attract a suitable number of applicants. A huge number of roles are secured through networking, every graduate should have a LinkedIn account and explore the full extent of their personal network.
I have every sympathy with recent graduates and they need a huge amount of support and encouragement in the current climate. I think sometimes negative statistics are taken out of context and make a challenging situation seem even worse.
anecdotally I think the statistic is about right for the jobs I apply for, at least. They aren’t entry level jobs (those all disappeared with the arrival of the internship) though I do make a point of asking how many people applied when I get interview feedback. I think the most I was up aganist was 126 and the lowest 55. I have had maybe 12 interviews in the last 6 months and asked all of them for feedback (I know shocking performance!). I think the average number of candidates is around 60 for the kind of charity jobs I once wasted my time applying for.
Also for the majority of these jobs you are forced to fill out an application with specific questions. It isn’t as easy as just sending out a cv to a random job ad on Reed or Gumtree. Also don’t people quickly learn there is no point in applying to jobs online if you just dash out loads of generic apps??
When you’ve been in the recent graduate bracket for a couple of years you begin to realise a bit about how the world works, especially in London.
After a couple of unpaid roles I managed to get a job in publishing. Sounds great, but at £15K a year in central London, I haven’t yet got out of my student overdraft. 8.30-5.30 days, legal min. holidays (4 of which you have to use at xmas). Not awful, but certainly not great. I’ve been looking to move on but am underqualified for anything but similar entry-level roles – I’ll need to have done at least 3 years before I can move on to something better. It seems that in media, even if you get that first full time role, it doesn’t mean you’re going anywhere!
Anyway, if I had one piece of advice for graduates it would be this: you only get paid in proportion to how much money your role directly brings in to the company. It really is that simple. This is why banking/sales/recruitment is paid well and journalism is paid peanuts. I know this sounds obvious but it is worth thinking about before you choose an industry, as it applies throughout the seniority scale. I know editors who are 50 and still on around £35K, which many may not feel is a great return on their uni investment. And when you’ve been out of uni a couple of years and your mates in recruitment are going on two holidays a year and playing on their ipads, you may find yourself cursing into your beans on toast that you are so idealistic…
My friends and I graduated last year and out of a group of 7 friends 2 have proper paid graduate jobs of about £25k or more. I earnt £15k, but recently got laid off. The other friends earn around the same as me or less.
Also, I have been interviewed for jobs where 500 people applied and 250 people applied. I didn’t get either job but got to the last few. I’m hopeful, but hugely aware there is a lot of competition.
What concerns me with these large numbers of people applying for jobs is that I really doubt employers will want to read through all 500 applications. I have even heard senior people where I work say that they will stop reading after the first 100 or so. If you are already in a job but applying for jobs then you are screwed. I mean if a job advert appears at 9.am then by 6.pm you could well be wasting your time. There is no way to know if your CV has even been read.