INTERNS ARE HIRED “THROUGH FRIENDS AND FAMILY OF STAFF AND ASSOCIATES”
**This story has been updated since it first went live earlier this week – see Comments below for the latest news**
Quintessentially — the concierge firm serving the rich and famous — has admitted to hiring interns for up to three months, paying them expenses only. Responding to our Pay Your Interns campaign, a spokesperson told Graduate Fog that despite working “normal office hours” for free, interns are expected to demonstrate “a good work ethic and attitude.”
The company, co-founded by Camilla Parker-Bowles’ nephew Ben Elliott, has an annual turnover of £50m and made £7.85m in profit last year. It charges clients £2,500+ a year for access to its exclusive services, including arranging five-star holidays and booking tables at exclusive restaurants. Quintessentially has 60 offices worldwide and counts Sir Richard Branson, Sienna Miller and Scarlett Johansson among its clients.
The spokesperson also said that it found its interns “through word of mouth” and “friends and family of staff and associates” – and that interns who “excel” are often offered paid jobs at the end of their internships. She also said the company had recently raised £15,000 from auctioning internships at the company (and several auction houses and a modelling agency) on eBay in April 2010.
However, almost a week after their initial email containing these details (Wed 14th September), nobody at Quintessentially has been able to respond to our follow-up email seeking clarification on the exact nature of their interns’ work — and how they feel it fits with the National Minimum Wage legislation.
Having initially been told last Thursday (15th) that the managing director would like to speak to us on the phone immediately (which we declined, preferring to keep all communication written), we requested a written response by Monday lunchtime (19th), which we felt was reasonable. But on Monday, we received an email from the managing director saying she is on holiday until Wednesday (21st, tomorrow), so won’t respond until then. There was no apology for this delay.
We had hoped to hold off from publishing this story until we had heard back from Quintessentially, giving them the chance to clarify the nature of the work that their interns are doing. But frankly, we started to feel like we were being fobbed off, which was annoying.
We have now lost faith that Quintessentially will ever respond, so have decided to go ahead and publish this when it suits us, not them. Which is today.
So, here is what happened when Graduate Fog approached Quintessentially about its policy on internships:
From: Graduate Fog
To: Quintessentially Press Office
Date: 14 September 2011, 10.33am
Subject: Press comment about internships at QuintessentiallyDear [name removed],
I am writing to ask about Quintessentially’s policy on internships, which is an issue that the users of Graduate Fog take very seriously. I would be extremely grateful if you could answer the following questions:
Do you employ interns within your company? If you do, please estimate how many you have currently, and how many have you had in the last year.
How long are your internships — and what work is involved? Do your interns have set hours and responsibilities?
Do you pay your interns at least the National Minimum Wage (NMW)? (This is £5.93 an hour, for over 21s). If you pay less than this, what do you pay?
We believe that too many companies are taking advantage of young people’s desperation to find work and gain experience – and using interns as a way of cutting their staff costs. We feel that big companies like yours should be taking the lead on this issue and setting a good example.
We look forward to hearing from you. Until we receive a reply, your company name will appear on our website with a note saying ‘Awaiting response’.
With many thanks
An hour later, Quintessentially replied:
From: Quintessentially Press Office
To: Graduate Fog
Date: Wednesday 14 September 2011, 11.16am
RE: Press comment about internships at QuintessentiallyHi,
Thanks for getting in touch and putting this opportunity through to us.
Please find details below re internships:
Internships within Quintessentially
Internships within Quintessentially will normally be for no more than 3 months. Although interns will not be paid, their expenses will be reimbursed. Interns are individuals, usually graduates, who are placed within the company to gain work experience. At Quintessentially we ensure that all interns are given tasks and projects will help them develop their skills and CV, we aim to provide a valuable internship programme for all those who join it.
How we recruit them:
Through word of mouth, friends and family of staff and associates, through our HR department who receive numerous applications a day for work experience / internships. Through our sister businesses.
How hard they have to work:
We ask them to work normal office hours and they are invited to attend events should they wish to gain experience in that area. We expect a good work ethic and attitude, internships are a great opportunity to prove yourself to the Quintessentially Group and interns are often offered jobs (if a role is available) if they excel.
Opportunities not normally available:
To gain valuable insight into the luxury market on a global scale. With over 60 offices worldwide and 32 sister businesses across the luxury market they have the opportunity — all under one roof — to experience numerous areas of business, develop skills, experience and confidence. They are also given the unique opportunity to be part of the ‘VIP’ world — when working at our events. Quintessentially are involved throughout the year with numerous high profile events, from charity galas, to film premiers and private screening, seasonal parties and luxury product launches, all of which have VIP guests in attendance. Interns working in the relevant departments involved with these events have the opportunity to gain insight into this notoriously hard to access, private world.
The opportunity to shine — Quintessentially is an entrepreneurial company, which consistently strives to produce the highest levels of excellence across all sectors of business we are involved in. If an intern works hard, proves themselves and showcases that much lusted ‘entrepreneurial spirit’ they will more often than not be offered a job at the end of their programme.
Auctioning of internships
The Quintessentially Foundation held a small internship auction in April 2010. We offered internships from companies such as Christies, Storm Models, Burberry, Sotheby’s, the Caprice Group and the Quintessentially Group and auctioned them off onto eBay. We raised GBP 15,000 which 100% went to SOS Children’s Villages, Room to Read, The Place 2Be and The House of St Barnabas.
Do let me know if I can send through any more information.
On a separate note, it would be great to meet for a coffee / lunch to discuss other editorial opportunities — let me know if it’s something you have time to do?
Best wishes,
Graduate Fog wrote back:
From: Graduate Fog
To: Quintessentially
Wednesday 14 September 2011, 3.26pmThank you for your email, which I read with interest.
However, I have some concerns about its contents – and would be grateful if you could answer the following questions too:
– If your interns do proper, useful work for Quintessentially and you pay them less than the national minimum wage (NMW), can you explain how you feel this fits with our NMW law? There is no legal definition of an ‘intern’ but the legislation states that anybody who fits the criteria of being a ‘worker’ (with set hours and responsibilities, not free to come and go as they please, not just work shadowing and not doing is as part of their course) must be paid at least the NMW for their work. (This is £5.93 for over-21s, rising to £6.08 on 1 October). All employers must pay this and an intern cannot waive their right to these wages, even if they say they are prepared to work for free in order to gain experience.
– If you are concerned that your current policy on using unpaid interns may not fit with the National Minimum Wage law, are you prepared to review it now that I have brought it to your attention?
At Graduate Fog, we believe that unpaid internships exploit those who do them — and exclude those who can’t afford to do them. We believe these internships are getting longer and longer — with less chance of a job at the end of them. We believe that it is a myth that unpaid internships lead to paid, permanent jobs — now, they are actually replacing paid, permanent jobs. Many employers are unaware of the damage that the practice is doing to young people’s futures. Is Quintessentially one of them?
We look forward to hearing from you.
With many thanks
A day later, we had heard nothing – so we chased Quintessentially:
From Graduate Fog
To: Quintessentially Press Office
Thursday 15 September, 4.01pmHi [name removed],
Can you just confirm when you will be able to respond to this?
Many thanks,
This came back:
From: Quintessentially Press Office
To: Graduate Fog
Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:16 PMHi,
Thanks for your email and apologies for not coming back to you on this yesterday.
My company director would be delighted to speak with you further about this – please can you send me your number so that she can give you a call?
Best wishes,
Pay Your Interns is an online campaign – so it is vital that all communication is written, so that we can post it publicly online for everybody to follow. We are not interested in having cosy chats on the phone. So we replied:
From: Graduate Fog
To: Quintessentially Press Office
Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:22 PMHi,
Thanks for this, but we would prefer to keep all communication on email. Just let me know when we can expect a response from your end.
Thanks again,
Weirdly, they didn’t seem to be getting it…
From: Quintessentially Press Office
To: Graduate Fog
Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:25 PMHi,
She’d like to speak to you personally before responding — do you have a free minute?
Best wishes,
So we wrote back:
From: Graduate Fog
To: Quintessentially Press Office
Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 4:31 PMHi [name removed],
As I said in my previous email, I would to like to keep all communication written.
Thanks
By the next day, we had heard nothing. So we sent this:
From: Graduate Fog
To: Quintessentially Press Office
Date: Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 3:55 PMHi [name removed]
Can you confirm when somebody from Quintessentially will be able to respond to the discussed questions? We will be updating our database early next week so would like to hear back from you by Monday lunchtime. I would be grateful if you could let me know if this will be possible?
With thanks again
Then came this, from Quintessentially’s co-founder and managing director, Katie Marshall…
From: Quintessentially (Managing Director)
To: Graduate Fog
Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 4:03Hi,
Please can you let me know what questions you are waiting for answers to.
Best,
Katie Marshall
Partner
Quintessentially Communications
So we forwarded the email:
From: Graduate Fog
To: Quintessentially
Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 4:05 PMSee below. [all previous emails were forwarded]
Thanks again,
Then everything went quiet. So on Monday we chased again:
From: Graduate Fog
To: Quintessentially
Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:55 AMHi Katie,
Can you confirm that this email reached you on Friday and that Quintessentially will be able to provide some sort of response today, by 4pm? We will be blogging about this tomorrow.
Thanks,
20 minutes later, this arrived:
From: Quintessentially
To: Graduate Fog
Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 12:13 PMI am on holiday and will respond to you on Wednesday
Thanks,
Katie
(And by the way, this last message was not a generic out-of-office response — we know because we got one of those too).
Annoying, isn’t it? After Katie wanted us to be available instantly to speak to her on Thursday, she has now gone on holiday until Wednesday — and has not apologised for missing our stated deadline of Monday. Oh well, perhaps they’ll email now…?
*Have you interned for Quintessentially?
What sort of work were you doing? Was your role more like work shadowing – or do you think you qualified as ‘worker’?
Here’s an advert from Quintessentially, a couple of years old but unpaid and looks mighty like real work:
Internship Quintessentially Music
About The Job
This vacancy was posted on 10/12/09
– Assist the Directors with data management
– Undertake selected projects, especially regarding new business opportunities and possible new partners
– Help manage relationships between Q Music and external parties
– Assist with coordinating events and liaise with other Quintessentially departments and sister companies
– Perform database management
– Answer the phone and return phone calls regarding Quintessentially Music enquiries
– Assist with calendar management and travel arrangements
Location
Location: London
Salary
Salary: Expenses
Duration Negotiable
@Mary B – thanks, that’s interesting.
I’ve just found another one on Facebook, dated 2 March 2010:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=342126406582
I’m going to give Katie a nudge now to see if she’s back from her holiday…
I have been interning with the elite team for 5weeks. I graduated this summer with a law degree and was unsure as to what I wanted to do but I knew where I wanted to be, so I packed up my things and came to London.
I managed to get the internship through a friend. I was interviewed and started a couple of days later. I was placed with the elite team and knew immediately this was something I could see myself doing having previously been an intern at other companies (also unpaid) and not feeling that my previous roles were for me
I have been surrounded by positivity from the beginning of my internship at Quintessentially.
I have met some great people who had faith in me, so my confidence has grown exponentially and I’m loving it.
I have gained insight into a whole new industry and without this internship I would never have known that this was something that would interest me.
It is really exciting working for the elite members, and every day is different. Ben Elliot himself encourages us to get involved in the areas that interest us. I have certainly never been taken for granted.
It is honestly a pleasure to work for Quintessentially and I will be the first person to be applying for a job here when the opportunity arises!
I feel very lucky to have been an intern at Quintessentially. As a recent graduate, the opportunity to gain experience in a sector that interests you is very hard to come by — and these days it seems that the sacrifice of temporary unpaid work is hardly large, when it can boost your chances for long term success wherever you go next – whether it’s a job offer within the company or employment elsewhere. During my time here, I have had the chance to speak with the Director of the team in depth, to really learn about the business. Any particular requests that I have are welcomed, encouraged even, for example gaining further insight into a particular account or aspect of the sector. I do not feel in any way exploited as a ‘worker’ at Quintessentially — instead, it feels like a mutually beneficial opportunity that I would recommend to other recent graduates!
I would like to settle the above accusations. I did a 2 month internship at Quintessentially, albeit unpaid, something I was fully aware of and informed of by Quintessentially themselves before accepting an internship there. During my two months there I was exposed to a huge array of experiences and opportunities that anyone would struggle to get elsewhere. With so many sister companies under one roof there were hundreds of opportunities to get to see first-hand how various industries work. As an intern I was given a variety of responsibilities: of course there were the usual intern tasks of admin based jobs, but this was completely over shadowed by other responsibilities I was given — speaking and working directly with clients, having a creative input and having opinions heard and respected. I was lucky enough to be given a job within Quintessentially after my 2 month internship, which was a great opportunity. I didn’t really have a definitive grasp on what I wanted to do as a career before starting the internship, however, the huge number of opportunities and experiences I faced at Quintessentially certainly narrow down my ideas and be more specific. Not only this, but as an intern the number of events and social occasions made life a lot fun — you would be hard pushed to attend some of the events that Quintessentially are involved in anywhere else!
I was an intern for Quintessentially and now I work full time for one of the sister companies. I don’t feel that I was taken advantage of in anyway and I speak for all my work friends who were interns and now have full time employment here, many in the concierge section, or in one of the 32 sister companies.
I worked very closely with the MD and executives of Quintessentially Aviation. I got taught skills that no one can teach sitting in a classroom. It is all well and good reading and learning the theory of a job but actually working and living the experience is a fantastic lesson that you can only achieve though hands on, practical work. The most successful business moguls in this world started off somewhere and an internship for Quintessentially is, in my experience, one of the best places to start.
I know a lot of people who have just come out of university with excellent degrees and have all turned to internships just to show their next employer that they have experience in the fast pace, always evolving, working world.
I have many friends in unpaid internships in the PR, Marketing, Media, banking industries that work normal office hours and sit in the offices tying ribbons round 1000’s of invitations to an event that they will never be invited to, and treated like second class citizens. I have never felt lower or less than everyone else while I’ve been at Quintessentially, and had the opportunities to attend VIP events, networking events, restaurant openings and so much more. I felt lucky to be treated so well and even got a 2 week course paid for me because the MD of Quintessentially Aviation saw my potential.
Anna, did ur boss give u a free lunch for that ?
Jess, u deserve the afternoon off for that one!
Dear Graduate Fog,
I interned with Quintessentially for three months this year, following which I was offered a full-time position with the company.
When I first contacted Quintessentially’s London office as a law graduate, I had little practical experience of business and hoped that a Marketing internship would give me further insight relevant to my future career. Whilst interning, I undertook a mixture of work shadowing and side-projects. I have little doubt that, with my completely unrelated skills set, the Marketing team were teaching me much more than I would have contributed to them.
My time with Quintessentially has been extremely colourful, to say the least. Not only is it a global company, which allowed me the opportunity to speak to people from partner offices across the world, its position in the luxury industry comes with some incredible perks that simply cannot be found from any other company. For example, in addition to paying me expenses and giving me exposure to the business development and legal aspects of the business, the company gifted me with two box-seat tickets to Kylie Minogue’s concert earlier this year.
I fully understand the spirit behind your ‘Pay Your Interns’ campaign. However, I feel that the overall pitch of your article is unnecessarily harsh. As if it’s not already clear – I applied to Quintessentially voluntarily in the hopes of gaining experience useful to my future career. I have gained this and much more. I am now working with the legal team and having an amazing experience prior to commencing my training contract in 2013. I am bewildered why you would paint such an opposite picture!
The majority of graduates today have been frustrated in the search for a permanent position and there is no getting around the fact that most employers will not consider you without relevant work experience. Several of my friends are still in the application process with very little luck! Internships are gold dust and companies who offer them should be applauded, not penalised for the ‘damage that the practice is doing to young people’s futures’!
Wow, thanks to all the Quintessentially interns and former interns who have posted here – it’s great to hear your point of view!
Graduate Fog has an update too – a couple more emails between us and Quintessentially…
The first is from us to Katie Marshall, MD of Quintessentially – the one who failed to meet our deadline for a comment as she was on holiday…
Then this has just come back this morning…
Graduate Foggers – what do you make of Quintessentially’s defence of their internships? And have their interns’ stories changed your mind about the company?
I think it’s safe to say that the chance of going in to permanent employment may have had a bit of influence in the Quintessentially interns coming forward with such glowing praise of their (not) employer (because that would be breaking NMW laws). Except it doesn’t matter how fantastic your time at your ‘volunteer’ position is. if you are doing a job as defined by NMW legislation then you should be paid as such. You may be fortunate enough to be in a nice working environment, but many other unpaid interns are not.
And also I hope that Quintessentially will note that unpaid internships advertised through word of mouth do not offer people ‘from all walks of life’ the opportunity. It offers people who can afford to work fulltime unpaid and people who move within their circles the opportunity to work for them.
Anyone with ‘entreprenurial spirit’ wouldn’t work for nothing for someone else. They would see that they are being taken advantage of. Going out with a bucket and sponge and starting your own car wash service is a million times more entrepenurial than being an unpaid intern. A couple of days washing cars would give you enough money to purchase your own concert tickets (recognise the value of your services and never denigrate your abilities).
I despair that so many young people consider themselves so worthless when they graduate that they think they should be grateful for the opportunity to ‘volunteer’ with a profit making enterprise.
Quintessentially are the true entrepreneurs; they have realised they can get free labour. There is a degree of double-speak going on pertaining to their use of the term ‘volunteer’. Do they not realise you can only volunteer for charitable concerns. Last time I checked luxury brands aren’t charity cases.
From a pragmatic point of view, interns present and future at Quintessentially have pretty good odds of getting paid work from them or one of their sister comanies – isn’t it a 50% chance? But the other half of people who have given months working for nothing may not be so delighted, and for them it’s back on the interns’ treadmill. If you are individualist and the gambling sort I can see how the short-termism appeals.
For me this campaign isn’t really about individual interns doing internships here and there – it’s about the messed up system that exploits young people and witholds jobs from them when they are desperate to get on with their lives and succeed.
My beef isn’t with internships it’s with unpaid internships, which are illegal. Unpaid internships remove real jobs from the economy and hold down wages. Ex and current unpaid interns, can you see yourself in the bigger picture?
I interned for 48 days in 2010 whilst juggling my academic priorities. The Quintessentially Group was very understanding about the importance of my degree and the time I needed to complete the degree. I completed my internship with expenses covered. I completed my degree with a 1st. I was employed by the group and have had no regrets.
I started at Quintessentially two months ago as an intern, in the hope of furthering my knowledge and experience within the luxury events industry. I had previously enjoyed experience in the PR and Marketing sectors, and was keen to increase my knowledge of the high end hospitality industry. After finishing my Marketing BA in Cardiff I was ready to get moving with my career and Quintessentially felt like the perfect starting place.
After contacting Quintessentially with the hope of joining their team I was received very quickly and soon after was offered a 2 month internship with the purpose of assisting and contributing to the launch of a new event. After graduating in July I started my internship just three weeks later whereby I was given the flexible hours of 10am — 5pm Monday to Friday. Although this placement was unpaid I was informed that my expenses would be covered and that I was in no contractual agreement and therefore could leave at any time if desired. I have always been a hardworking individual and it’s not in my nature to do things by half so I really did put my all into the position — of course in situations like this you are aiming for a full time arrangement and if you really want something, you do everything in your power to prove yourself. After only a couple of days I was already learning a huge amount and being given some amazing tasks — which I welcomed wholeheartedly — and was subjected to all areas of the run-up to the event. I gained an enormous amount of knowledge and experience from the internship and in the process made some valuable contacts, which let’s face it, is what this industry is all about. I was immediately welcomed onto the team and was made to feel extremely excepted by all I came into contact with, there was always help at hand and I was never made to feel like “just an intern”.
As my internship was coming to an end I of course was keen to discuss opportunities within the company to which my Director gave me a considerable amount of support. I was consequently invited to have a meeting with the group’s GM and one of the Founding Directors — whereby they expressed their appreciation of my work and help, and as a result of my successful two months I was offered a position to start effective immediately. At 24 with a fairly considerable amount of experience and a first class honors BA I am now in a position whereby I am responsible for marketing and business development for one of the sister companies, a position which holds a significant amount of responsibility and allows me to develop my skills and further my learning within this ever-changing industry.
In a society of many graduates and supposedly fewer jobs, I am in a fantastic fulltime job which I obtained through determination and initiative, but would not have happened without the opportunity to have been an intern! I would recommend an internship to anyone — anyone that is passionate and wants to go far in their chosen career. I am entirely grateful to Quintessentially and everything they have done for me. It may sound like a cliché but Quintessentially really are one big family and I feel very lucky to be a part of it.
@Joddle
I think you make a really interesting point about the benefits to the individual versus the ‘big picture’.
We know that unpaid internships can lead to that one individual getting a paid job – but it’s a fact that the practice is having a hugely damaging impact on everybody else in the meantime. Those who can’t afford to do them are being excluded from the chance to compete, and internships seem to be getting longer and longer, with less chance of a job at the end of them. This means that those who can only afford to do one or two placements can never compete with those who can afford to do three, four or five…
One of the creepiest things about the whole internship scandal is that it is the interns themselves who actually continue the practice. If young people simply refused to do these internships without pay, they could not exist. But, as I say, I never blame interns, as I know you are between a rock and hard place. In my opinion, it is absolutely clear who the real villains are – the companies that allow you to work for free – and the government for failing to enforce the National Minimum Wage law for interns.
From Quintessentially’s response, it is clear that they are a very long way behind the internships debate, and still need to be told the basics. It is outrageous that our government is not doing more to explain the facts to companies like Quintessentially about what is and isn’t okay. Let’s hope some comments here will show Quintessentially why their pride in their unpaid internship scheme is so mis-placed. Because while these placements can benefit the individual, Quintessentially must realise that this happens at great cost to everybody else.
PS If there are any university careers advisers reading this, can you explain why these interns seem to have no idea about their rights as workers?
Whilst I am glad that a lot of interns seem to have had good experiences at Quintessentially, this does not alter the fact that the unpaid internships on offer look like jobs. I am aware that this is often viewed as the route into PR work and the culture in this industry is that 3 months unpaid work or more is acceptable. However, this does not mean that they are not breaking National Minimum Wage law or that their practices do not exclude people who cannot work for free from gaining valuable experience. Interns are not necessarily aware of best practice or of the law regarding National Minimum Wage, campaigns like Graduate Fog’s help to explain what is and isn’t acceptable. It would be great if Quintessentially could clarify what kind of work they expect from their interns.
The reality of being an unemployed graduate is that a job without at least some work experience is rare. To give this some context, I have friends who graduated with a first from their undergraduate degree, who have masters (some from Oxbridge!) who are still unable to obtain full-time employment. I met one particular friend on an internship abroad. We had both paid £2K plus (YES, WE PAID!) for an organised one-month placement in a company. Others pay more. All we want is experience.
Internships such as the ones offered at Quintessentially are in some cases simply the only solution – the means to gain valuable work experience, whether this leads to a job offer with Quintessentially or another company. Plus, they are flexible enough to be fitted in between other part-time employment and study, as ‘Nameless, Ex Intern, Current Employee’ mentioned.
To return to the ‘all walks of life’ argument – Quintessentially advertise on facebook and twitter as well as word of mouth. As for me – I am not supported by my parents and neither my family nor I come from a particularly privileged background. I worked extremely long hours waitressing to support myself before and during my internship. However, I did it. I’m 22 years old and within 1 year I completed 4 internships and held down a voluntary position at citizens advice bureau. Being brutally honest, I wouldn’t secured the job offers I have now without the intern placements.
Yes, OF COURSE we would all love to be paid and paid well but this isn’t something that can be effected over night. For now, unpaid internships are often the only way forward. You say that it is ‘creepy’ that the interns are the ones continuing the practice. So what do you propose that would actually work? We cannot all demand to be paid or turn down the opportunities we are fighting for. It’s impractical. The most likely result of this debate on Graduate Fog is that you force companies like Quintessentially to revoke their internship programme and leave us with nothing. There are very few among us who would turn down the chance of an internship – however that is paid – and return to rejection letters citing lack of work experience.
It’s not ideal. But the economic climate is what it is. Take it up with the government if you really want to see a change.
I’m glad that interns seem to have such a positive experience at Quintessentially, but as the Economist neatly puts it: ‘Getting an internship in the first place often depends on deep pockets and parental connections to which only the more fortunate youngsters have access’. Unless everyone has the money and support to work for nothing in London for months on end, many people are going to miss out on a fantastic career.
unfortunately, the Economist goes on to say:
‘although some of them may be doing menial tasks, the companies they are working for are probably so busy that the interns will also be given some tasks that actually matter.
Many people are outrageously exploited at work, but interns are not among them. After all, they are getting a free education, something that few universities provide these days’.
Disgusted with the article’s attitude http://www.economist.com/node/21528449 – it starts of so well then goes on to slap young people in the face.
Hi – good to meet you all.
By way of introduction – I’m a Founder of the Quintessentially Group.
Thanks for this thread. Anyone who would like to [from ANY walk of life] apply for / get interested in an internship with us, please contact me directly: [REMOVED BY GRADUATE FOG – THIS WEBSITE DOES NOT BROKER UNPAID INTERNSHIPS]
I started as an intern at a film company 15 years ago, and became their head of Development after 2 years as a graduate unpaid internship of 2 months. Its not about who you know – its about how indispensable you make yourself and willingness to listen and learn and come up with ideas. I was turned down by the BBC, ITV, Channel Four etc. A small independent film company gave me a chance, and I did everything from make tea to run errands. I always made myself available and I always tried to get involved to learn as much as possible. I was paid £30 a week and slept on a mate’s floor in Highbury. Yes I would have preferred a full time £20k a year paid job, but I also had the reality check that they had queues of people willing to get their foot in the door for free experience. They didn’t need me. So I had to make myself indispensable.
Am sure there are companies out there exploiting young graduates. We are not one of them. And we would join you in condemning them.
We will never cancel or revoke our internship programme as it HUGELY SUCCESSFUL. Am sorry to disappoint some of your contributors, but just because we deal with people of wealth and fame, doesn’t mean that we are ‘elitist’ or don’t consider everyone that comes to us and ask to get some experience in a multitude of areas. See above.
– Tanya – I would suggest you call your publishers of your book – “Dude, Where’s My Career” – Summersdale Publishers – and ask them why they do THREE month ‘work experience’ UNPAID. It seems that even those close to you are way behind the debate in Internships. However they don’t have our track record in employing over 50% of those interns. Am sure you’ll pick this up with them, or of course you can move publishers. If you can find one that doesn’t take unpaid internships perhaps you could post it here.
– Joddle – you can come to our HQ in Portland Place and chat to anyone you wish about how entrepreneurial we all are here. We are the some of all the parts. If you come to us as an intern, and have a great idea and come speak to me about it – you may well end up getting investment from us to start your business. Ask anyone in the company.
– Rosy – internships are in all areas of our business where a graduate wishes to get experience. Most interns are placed into our business for 2 weeks to gain an insight into the working of various departments. Some stay longer – but on average its 2-4 weeks. Over half we take on as employees.
– Siobhan – unfortunately this is not true. You can apply, anyone can apply. Just don’t think that we are what you think we are without getting to know us. Not many employees of a company – or even the owner – would be bothered to write on this blog unless they felt that we were being misrepresented.
As I say – I am on [EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED BY GRADUATE FOG] for anyone who would like to ask about our company.
Thanks everyone,
Aaron
ps – I meant ‘sum’ of all our parts! That’s what a geography degree does for you.
Hi Aaron,
First of all, please do not use Graduate Fog to promote unpaid internships at Quintessentially – you will see I have removed your contact details from your comment. Although many websites are only too happy to promote opportunities like this, Graduate Fog is not one of them. I want no part in a practice that is proving to be so damaging to so many young people in this country.
As I said in my previous response today, I’m afraid that all the emails we have received from Quintessentially (including your comment just now) only go to prove how out of touch your company is with this debate.
In addition, I am not remotely interested to hear about your own experience of interning – it is completely irrelevant. Nor is whether the publisher of my book uses unpaid interns (although I will be having words with them!).
I am, however, extremely keen to hear how you feel Quintessentially’s policy on internships fits with the National Minimum Wage law – and this is a question that nobody from your company seems willing to address. Is there a reason for this?
Since I suspect you are not familiar with details of this law, it says that anybody classed as a ‘worker’ (with set hours and responsibilities, and doing work that is of value to their employer) MUST be paid at least the NMW (which is £5.93 a hour, rising to £6.08 on 1 October). An intern cannot waive their right to be paid this, even if they say they ‘volunteering’ or happy to work for free. The only exception to this is charities, who can claim that their interns are ‘volunteer workers’. Is Quintessentially a registered charity?
Have you checked the legislation? New guidelines were released last week – perhaps you could take a look and get back to us with your thoughts how Quintessentially’s internships fit with the law?
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/nmw
Hi Tanya,
I don’t need to use Graduate Fog to promote anything. We are inundated as it is! HR at any one time has over 100 internship / work experience applications, from all walks of life. Sorry you didn’t want to hear about my experiences, but perhaps some of your readers do.
Good to hear you are picking this up with your publishers. I suggest also you do the same with the Guardian too. Am sure you will not write for either of them until they also checked and follow the new legislation – as you say – you “want no part in a practice that is proving to be so damaging to so many young people in this country”. Please confirm this is the case.
Also you might want to call your sponsors / advertisers on this site. The person from Barchick jumped for joy when I called them and asked if they take unpaid interns and said ‘of course we do’. Perhaps you should remove them as this is clearly a breach of your “want no part in a practice that is proving to be so damaging to so many young people in this country”. As you are taking money from these organisations, you better sort immediately. Probably best to get the advertisers to use that cash to employ their interns.
Quintessentially Foundation is a registered charity and raised over £1.5m for good causes – including the Place2be, SOS Children’s Villages to name a few over the last year. Am sure your readers would like to donate to it http://www.quintessenttiallyfoundation.org and read about its great work.
So glad that we have had a couple of interns in the Foundation that are now employed by the Foundation.
I have a meeting with my HR Manager to discuss ‘internships’ versus ‘work experience’ versus NWM. Once we’ve had that chat we will revert to you.
But please revert to me on your progress with your publisher and the Guardian and your sponsors.
Regards,
Aaron
aaron@quintessentially.com
ps – sorry again i have Geography fingers – that’s http://www.quintessentiallyfoundation.org
@Aaron Simpson – fifteen years ago an internship would have had real value and I’m not surprised it opened doors for you but now they are ten-a-penny. Internships are profligate monsters.
I think unpaid internships are exploitative. I only work for myself for nothing.
I have known many interns who have given their internship everything they have. They thought they had made themselves indespensible only to find out they were very much expendable. When somebody will work for nothing, why pay?
I expect you are well-meaning and don’t realise that your ‘make yourself indespenible’ viewpoint is outmoded in a land where most unpaid internships only lead to more unpaid internships.
I know who at least two of the ex-interns posting are, they are both the public school educated children of millionaires, who can easily afford to pay for accommodation and living expenses in central London. Quintessentially are not offering equal opportunities for all; the interns in question got their roles because of who they know.
@ Joddle – I agree with you that i am nearly 40, so probably over the hill, but in Quintessentially’s case we employ OVER 50 % of those talented young graduates.
Good of you to carefully sidestep the issue re your publishers Tanya…
Some key passages from the Business Link guidance:
Volunteer agreements
You may have written agreements with your volunteers or may have written to them with confirmation letters, for instance outlining:
– the ethos of your organisation
– opening hours or attendance expectations
– what is expected of them
– your organisation’s rules and procedures [my bold]
– insurance indemnity provisions for them
As long as these agreements are intended to clarify the reasonable expectations of the volunteer and your organisation and are clearly not intended to amount to an employment contract or a contract to personally perform work or services, they will not make the individual a worker and entitled to be paid the NMW.
Employment contracts and other written agreements
If you engage someone on a work shadowing or on a volunteer basis, it is recommended that you agree elements of the arrangement in writing, such as learning objectives, and then tailor their activities to these learning objectives. Documenting objectives for the work experience and recording that you will reimburse someone for ‘out of pocket’ expenses will not, in itself, amount to an employment contract or a contract to personally perform work or services which entitles the individual to the NMW.
Individuals who are undertaking a placement that does not involve any work being performed, such as work shadowing, will not come within the national minimum wage (NMW) legislation since these individuals only observe and are not performing work.
Individuals who are undertaking placements on a volunteer basis are not workers for NMW purposes.
In general a volunteer is someone who:
– has an arrangement with you or your organisation, which does NOT entitle them to a financial reward or benefit in kind for work they perform under the arrangement
– does not have to turn up for work if they don’t want to (even if you or their colleagues expect them to or they generally work to a regular pattern)
– cannot be dismissed, sued for breach of contract or have payment or reward withheld if they fail to do the work or perform the services they were providing
The intention behind the unpaid activity (whether to benefit the environment, other groups, or the individual personally) is irrelevant. An individual can volunteer to do work for you or your organisation for non-altruistic reasons, eg someone may volunteer to do work to gain experience or in the hope that they will get a good reference.
I would suggest none of Quintessentially’s internships violate these guidelines. And no, I am in now way connected with them.
@Bibble – what about the other 13 interns? Ah yes, they are from all walks and backgrounds.
@Tanya – http://www.wikijob.com – your other sponsor – you might want to take this sponsor down too. They have hundreds and hundreds of unpaid internships advertised on their website. Click the button on the top left next that says ‘Internships’.
Have a lovely weekend, and thank you to all of you that have donated to the Foundation. really appreciated.
Aaron
@Aaron,
Coming from you, the suggestion that I don’t do enough for the interns’ cause is pretty laughable! Perhaps you are unaware that I have spent 18 months campaigning on this issue, completely unpaid?
I will reply re the NMW law details later, but just on the point about my sponsors, publisher and clients:
My Sponsors
I ask all my sponsors (and anybody who advertises on my job board) about their policy on using unpaid internships, and tell them I will not work with companies who do, because the issue is so important to my credibility. Both WikiJob and Barchick have assured me more than once that they do not use unpaid interns – and I have no reason to think they are not telling the truth. Short of going in to their offices to check they’re telling the truth, I’m not sure what else I could have done? I will speak to Barchick and drop them instantly if they admit they do use unpaid interns. Please also remember that the money we are talking about from each of these brands is very,. VERY small – and certainly not risking my brand’s reputation for!
My publisher
They offered me the deal in 2007, long before I had even had the idea for Graduate Fog. Should I have asked them then if they used unpaid interns? And what do you suggest I do now? Again, I would like to stress that I earn roughly 25p per book I sell at full-price, so I am not exactly getting rich with this revenue stream! I have no problem admitting that they paid me £1,500 for the book as an advance, which I have nearly (but not quite!) earned back in royalties. For six months’ work (and subsequent promotion), this is hardly a huge amount.
The people I write for
Again, I have always been 100% upfront about how I make a living – I am a features writer for magazines and newspapers. And, as everybody knows, they are one of the worst culprits when it comes to using unpaid interns. I don’t like it, but I have to earn a living. I have to pay my rent. Aaron, are you seriously suggesting that I should cut off my only source of income in protest at the fact these brands use unpaid interns? I have no idea about your personal financial background, but I would suggest that only somebody with a large private income to fall back on would make that as a serious suggestion…?
Illegal or not, unpaid internships mean that even if someone is an ideal candidate, if they can’t afford to work on expenses for a period of time, however long, then they are going to miss out. Not everyone has a mate in london whose floor they can ‘doss’ on at night.
The wide spread use of unpaid internships in the for-profit sector is removing paid junior positions from the market, even if some internships may lead to a job after x amount of months. What hope do those who can’t afford to work for free, but want a job with career prospects, have if there are fewer and fewer paid junior roles and competition from those who can afford to work for nothing?
I’m interning unpaid in the charity sector so am classed as a volunteer. I enjoy it, i’m learning loads, my cv is filling up and i’m not pressured into working full time (as required by volunteering law), so can attend interviews, look for jobs etc.
The internship is a long car journey away in a rural location and my petrol expenses are covered. However my car is due an MOT and Service soon and i’m not sure how i’m going to be able to afford it yet. If I can’t, I’ll have to either borrow from my parents or declare my vehicle SORN and give up my internship.
it is reasons like this that unpaid internships are so hard for young people. If i was paid at least NMW i’d be able to run my car past it’s MOT without worrying about my finances… and probably be wearing a pair of socks without holes in.
@Aaron
How do you suppose people support themselves through an internship whilst unpaid?
For many people, it is simply not an option.
Rent alone in London is prohibitive for most.
Tanya,
you’re really a bit of a hypocrite and this whole thread is absurd.
I have done my own investigation on Quintessentially and the company is a shining star in aiding people (from any walk of life) to advance themselves in life and their careers, as well as raising hundreds of thousands of pounds for charity.
Maybe focus so much of your (paid) attention and reserach on a company which actually exploits people.
Hi guys, just want to put it out there, I was the first and only intern BarChick have hired. I did a 2 month internship and was paid minimum wage and was also given a permenant job afterwards. This was after 3 internships where I was paid nothing,or just travel. I have no idea where this idea that they “jumped for joy” at hiring interns for nothing came from,but its absolute rubbish and I’d like to know where Aaron thinks he has got this from.
@Bibble – agree with you. Rents are crazy. That’s why I had t find a solution for when I started working in London.
@Jennie – I can only go by what the guy said who answered the phone. If what he said was inaccruate I apologise. But that’s what he said.
Best of luck with the campaign.
Ax
It’s so hard to take Aaron Simpson seriously; with his sarcastic tit-for-tat responses.
“As you are taking money from these organisations, you better sort immediately. Probably best to get the advertisers to use that cash to employ their interns.”
Have you started to care Mr.S? Or you’re just interested in throwing stones? Please answer the real question here, and give us an accordingly intelligent, considered response.
Here it is again.
I am, however, extremely keen to hear how you feel Quintessentially’s policy on internships fits with the National Minimum Wage law — and this is a question that nobody from your company seems willing to address. Is there a reason for this?
I am not going to defend how much I care about my staff to a complete stranger. They will tell you themselves that Quintessentially has a great soul and is a bloody great place to work. And we are always striving to improve in every area.
Good luck with this campaign.
I am politely going to stop writing anymore here. You have my email if you wish to contact me.
Ax
Aaron,
1. Firstly there is no “new legislation”, there are the Minimum Wage regulations and they remain unchanged and unvaried since becoming law over ten years ago.
2. It makes absolutely no difference that your “internships” are very popular, when a hungry man gets offered a bag of crisps he doesn’t quibble about the flavour, graduates are desperate for experience – if the only thing on offer is unpaid work they will take that rather than nothing, that doesn’t make it fair, right, honest, moral or decent for you to exploit their desperation.
3. Unpaid internships DON’T only affect those who can afford to do them – they also affect those who are unable to take up these opportunities. You don’t hear from them as they never had the chance to get the experience because they need their work to paid to feed and clothe themselves. You can corral all your interns to post on here all you like, but they’re desperate to get paid work, of course they will defend your exploitative company
4. You say your internships do not need to be paid – you should check that with the Minimum Wage authorities who tell employers that if they take on someone and expect them to do real work they must be paid – work like eg “Answer(ing) the phone and return(ing) phone calls regarding Quintessentially Music enquiries”. That is work that would otherwise have to be done by paid workers – you should be paying them.
It’s quite clear why you are such an enthusiast for unpaid internships – you get lots of work done at your company without having to put your hand in your pocket.
Nasty business.
Hear hear! Let’s hope Mr.Simpson starts putting his money where his mouth is. To “care about your staff” includes paying them.
@Mary B well said
Aaron, I am the only ‘guy’ at BarChick and I’m sure I have never spoken to you about interns or anything else. By the way, I am actively outspoken against the exploitation of interns, one of the reasons we associate ourselves with this site
Tanya – Either have principles and stick to them or don’t – the hypocrisy of you pointing out this discrepancy with your sponsors makes you look like a clown. To quote a wise man – “Do or do not – there is no try”.
As Aristotle said:
“We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly”
Start leading by example, why don’t you Aaron.
Reg, I think you’ve missed the point – Tanya has pointed out there is no discrepancy with her sponsors, that Barchick does not use unpaid interns as evidenced by the fact that the only intern they have used has confirmed he was paid, and that the man that Aaron Simpson claims to have spoken to at that company has said that he has never spoken to him.
There appears to be only one clown in site here.
As you were. And in sight.
Aaron,
As they say, don’t you just love a good blog! This is made for interesting reading. Its clear that Quintessential have the read blog and had a bit of a panic, that there brand is about to be damaged. Quintessential have asked current employees to contribute to the blog and say how wonderful it is to work there and how great it is to work for free for 3 months. It’s ok if you don’t have bills to pay and live at home with mum and daddy who will pay for your every need and educate you at a top public school, but your average schmuck like me who has bills to pay this free internship is definitely a No-go and I thinks that’s the case for the vast majority of graduates. I think it’s financially better for me to sign on to job seekers allowance and claim my £120 every 2 weeks rather than work for free at Quintessential no matter how wonderful your staff may claim it to be.
Back to the blog Quintessential has gone on the charm offensive in order to eradicate any negative publicity this has clearly backfired as you look like a desperate man trying to prove a point. All you have done is prove how out of touch you are with the real world while you align your heavy pockets furthermore on the back of free interns who I gather you have many dozens working there. If you had one or 2 free interns that’s fine but it seems you’re just exploiting the desperation of many unemployed graduates as has been pointed out many times above so you don’t have to pay someone a full time wage.
It would be great to know what your members think of your non paid intern scheme.
If you love your staff so much, I wonder if you pay them big bonuses and pensions for all their hard work.
It does seem like there is a lot wrong in what you are doing as a multi-million pound profit company. Your company and your own personal responses show what type of company quintessential is. The people will be the ultimate judges of what the future may entail. I only hope you do one positive action from this and that is simply;
PAY YOUR INTERNS!!!!!!
I am a graduated that did an internship at quintessentially last year for 1 month. I now work for an advertising company in their creative department, a position I got because of two things:
a) I sat on the other side of the table from them when they were pitching for Quintessentially’s business and got to know them;
b) got a great reference letter from Aaron when I left having asked him to write one about my experiences within his company which he kindly did.
I shadowed the Marketing Director, the PR director and the Commercial Manager when I was at Q to get some more practical experience for what I wanted to do.
I was born in Glasgow, I went to a comprehensive school. I got myself into Cambridge and graduated with a 2:1 in PPE. Slap myself of the back because I don’t expect anyone else to.
I don’t think anyone owes me a living.
I don’t expect anyone to accommodate me if I want to live in London.
I don’t expect anyone to pay me if I have no experience.
I found this blog really quite pathetic for the attempts it makes at targeting a company that – as far as I can see and have experienced – is the only one employing people on here and giving people experience to take forward in their lives and get further in their lives.
For example – Sacha – how many people do you employ? How many interns have you given or helped get jobs over the last few years? Easy to throw stones…
What’s wrong with helping people into employment or even offering someone a job? Are any of you on minimum wage? STOP KNOCKING PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY CREATE JOBS/ I know Quintessentially employs over 1,500 people. Stop trying to damage them and their employees and their family’s livelihoods.
Tanya – your cause is one to attract publicity it seems, because you yourself can not find an employers / source of income that doesn’t condemn the very practise you are campaigning against.
One thing I have found in life is that its a particularly British thing to knock successful people. A lot of people are negative and pessimistic on this Blog and also are not doing themselves or the campaign any favours.
In reality this campaign is already dead on its feet. The world has much bigger problems to deal with – hugely rising unemployment in the UK/Europe (more graduates than ever are unemployed), economic meltdown, millions dying in Somalia and the Sudan, Iran getting the nuclear weapon – than to be worried about a how unfair that internships for a few weeks don’t get paid minimum wage and can’t afford to live in London and that Daddy wasn’t rich or connected enough to get them a placement. Absolute nonsense.
I did it. I got one. I didn’t ask anyone for any favours. I just got on with it. This isn’t about class or cash, but about motivation and drive.
Tanya – get a proper campaign going about sweat factories that abuse workers over many years because of Visa laws, rather than trying to break a system that works. Rather than sitting comfy in London, actually get out there and find – like a proper journalist would – real issues of concern in places of real abuse of employers over their employees. Stop trying to go for the cheap jibe or cheap publicity stunt that damages your campaign, but find real examples of how employers abuse graduates.
This is a dead duck of a campaign.
Regards,
Jerry Thomas
Wow, thanks Jerry for your kind words!
If it’s alright with you, I think I’m going to press on with our Pay Your Interns campaign though. We’re just getting started… ; )