WHY WON’T THEY GIVE US A STRAIGHT ANSWER ABOUT THEIR POLICY ON INTERNSHIPS?
*GRADUATE FOG EXCLUSIVE*
The biggest challenge we have encountered with our Pay Your Interns campaign is getting big brand’s press offices to respond to our questions about their policy on internships. Thankfully, we have had no such problems with Topshop, who have now provided three separate explanations.
The trouble is, all three have all been different — and the inconsistency is starting to make us a teensy bit suspicious. Could the brand have something to hide?
EXPLANATION NUMBER 1
Initially, a Topshop spokesperson told us their interns worked “9-5pm, zone 1-6 travel paid for and £3.50 worth of food a day for lunch, what they are involved in varies on which departments they are in.” She then provided a list of tasks a Topshop intern would typically be given, including “trend research,” “creating trend packs” and “small creative projects… using Photoshop” and “annotation and specking up of designs.”
EXPLANATION NUMBER 2
But, when the Observer contacted Topshop about our story, a different spokesperson declared that Topshop’s interns had no set hours of responsibilities, and were simply “shadowing” paid members of staff. She said:
“At Topshop we have a clearly defined work experience policy and it’s something we are very passionate about as a brand. We offer unpaid work experience placements here, not internships, where the individual spends their time shadowing a member or members of the team and learning about what they do. They do not have a set role to perform, or set hours in which to do it. As a benefit we offer those undertaking work experience £3.50 towards lunch and we cover their travel costs. Placements tend to run for around four weeks and are solely for those aged 16 and over.”
EXPLANATION NUMBER 3
And now — when we questioned Topshop about this inconsistency, a third spokesperson has told us something different again. Apparently, these placements are mainly “work shadowing”, but “getting to try a bit of what you are learning makes the placement more fun!”
This is what they said:
To: Graduate Fog
From: Topshop HRHi
I hope you’re well. Apologies for the delay in responding to you. We’ve not liaised before but I’m the HR Manager for Topshop Head office and [name removed by Graduate Fog] forwarded your email onto me. I understand from your email on Monday that you felt there was a discrepancy between the description of our work experience that appeared in the Observer article on Sunday 9th October and the description provided by [name] back in September.
I know [name] has already conveyed this but I wanted to reiterate that work experience is something we feel very passionately about at Topshop. These placements provide a great opportunity for learning about an extremely competitive industry, and support many young people in developing towards a career in fashion retail. We are proud to offer this experience and hope that many more individuals will continue to benefit from this opportunity in the future.
I’d also add that our work experience placements are enthusiastically supported by the brand teams with a significant investment of their time and experience, and this is a testament to the value the brand believes this experience adds to supporting individuals into employment.
I hope that the details below can help to clarify any discrepancies and, as I know [name removed] has already offered, we are very happy to meet with you to discuss this in the future.
Kind regards
[name removed by Graduate Fog]
Work shadowing
We are strong believers in Arcadia that, to learn best, the majority of people need to observe and practice [sic] what they are learning; a crucial part of every work experience placement is therefore getting to put into practice some of the skills you are learning within a safe and supported environment. We also believe that getting to try a bit of what you are learning makes the placement more fun!
Alongside our regular work experience placements we also have a strong relationship with the Fashion Retail Academy and offer many structured placements for their students throughout the year. These placements are organised with the academy to provide an opportunity for students to put into practice the skills that they have learned from a theoretical perspective on their course, highlighting the importance placed on actively experiencing a business environment alongside college education.
Working hours
To clarify, we don’t specify set hours for our work experience placements, and can offer a range of hours and working patterns to suit the applicant, however as our office hours are 9am – 5pm each day the majority of work experience students are keen to participate in a complete day in the office. In contrast our placements with the Fashion Retail Academy tend to run from 10am – 4pm each day, but are flexible according to each student’s wishes and other commitments.
We thought we understood — but we just wanted to check. So we wrote back:
From: Graduate Fog
To: TopshopSo the only interns / work experience people you have at Topshop are either work shadowing (ie just observing, and not doing any real work) OR they are doing a placement as part of their course – is that correct? And all these people are free to come and go as they please throughout the duration of their time with you?
The next day, this arrived:
From: Topshop
To: Graduate FogHi,
Not quite, as per my email all of our work experience placements offer a chance to practice what the individuals are learning, so rarely would a placement be 100% observation (that’s not to say they would never be just observation). Individuals are open to agree their hours with the team they’re spending their time with.
Sophie, I hope that this has answered the original questions and I trust that this has brought your enquiries to a close.
Best wishes
[name removed]
It’s clear Topshop are keen to end our discussion there – but what do you make of their three different explanations? We think our questions were pretty clear – so why won’t Topshop give us a straight answer?
*Why won’t Topshop give us a straight answer?
From what they have said, can you understand their policy on internships? Can you explain the inconsistency in their responses? Have you interned at Topshop — or do you know anybody who has? Was your experience just work shadowing?
I think I can solve the mystery Tanya.
The difference in the responses depends on how closely Top Shop feel they are being watched. When they tell you their interns do real work for the company, that’s what they say when they’re being unguarded and honest.
When they tell the Observer it’s all about “work shadowing”, that’s what they say when the PR team have got on board, assessed the dangers of the situation and are trying to limit the bad publicity of being seen as expolitative users of young unpaid workers.
Easy really. All a matter of deduction. I feel a bit like Poirot.
The term “Stop digging yourself into a bigger hole” comes to mind, and all things being equal, one would feel somewhat sympathetic to the personnel bods within Top Shop who may feel the wrath of Senior Executives down their necks for any unwarranted attention…. if it wasn’t for the likelihood that personnel within Top Shop are being staffed to the hilt with unpaid Interns and that they have been left to field any telephone calls and enquiries.
I suspect some clarification could ensue if a report were to be issued to the authorities that Top Shop were maliciously recruiting staff to fulfil role requirements and yet bypassing Minimum Wage Legislation. If something looks like a job, requires candidates to fulfil specific roles and achieve certain objectives, then a job remains a job remains a job and it doesn’t matter how an employer tries to spin the story.
How untrue and what a far-fetched statement; that there are no set working hours. I highly doubt when I was there that if I decided to just leave once I got all my tasks done (which didn’t take long at all) they would’ve been so chipper. Just trying to hide the fact that they expoilt young people, shame!
Whilst I admire the dedication to investigation the issues surrounding unpaid ‘interns’ I can’t help but feel that some of the points raised in this article are entirely redundant. For example, arguing over whether or not a work experience candidate can leave as and when they choose is pointless, of course you can’t just stand up in the middle of the day. Trading hours are 9-5 and if you want experience of how a business runs of course it is expected that you would work those hours. In saying there werre no set hours the HR dept. were obviously referring to the flexibility needed in order to allow for those with prior commitments such as child care, health issues, transportation problems, religious commitments etc to be able to carry out work experience.
If, Hannah, it is expected that you would work those hours, then you should be paid. It’s as simple as that.
of course you can’t just stand up in the middle of the day.
Yes you can if you are a ‘volunteer’ which is what most of these companies are stating. ie. the work (and its hours) are non-mandatory.
Trading hours are 9-5 and if you want experience of how a business runs of course it is expected that you would work those hours. In saying there werre no set hours the HR dept. were obviously referring to the flexibility needed in order to allow for those with prior commitments such as child care, health issues, transportation problems, religious commitments etc to be able to carry out work experience.
Wrong – it is mandatory for employers to give time of for most of those activities.
Your knowledge of employment law is seriously lacking.
Hi everyone,
I’ve just arranged work experience within the buying department in january, but after reading this i’m a little nervous that i’m just one in a long line of interns. Can anyone offer any advice?
I did work experience for Grazia a couple years ago and found out they recruit interns back to back throughout the whole year…who else would sort post, run pointless errands and get the editors lunch?
Have you interned unpaid for Topshop – or any other well-known brand? Fancy some free money?
Check out Interns Fight for Justice – the new campaign from Graduate Fog and Intern Aware. We are looking for interns who are feeling brave / angry / skint enough to challenge their former employers and request the wages they are owed for the work they did unpaid.
Even if your internship was a while ago and you agreed to work unpaid at the time, that doesn’t matter. The minimum wage works out at around £1,000 a month, so depending on the length of your internship you could be in line to receive a tidy sum!
Just get in touch with us for more information:
https://graduatefog.co.uk/2012/2080/interns-fight-justice-campaign/
Thanks!
Graduate Fog x
PS. None of this will cost you a penny!
Hi,
I just wanted to raise awareness on this and the real state of the industry.
I first began interning with a well known design company in East London. My role was supposed to be a PR intern but actually this meant roaming the streets of london on foot with press samples all day and returning back to the offices to pick up more things and go out and re-deliver. I wasn’t complaining about this because within my first few weeks of studying fashion in London this was a real eye opener. I was sent with my iphone following google maps often to very weird back street warehouses. I’d spend hours looking for these obscure offices because they’d be hidden in basically abandoned buildings. A few I entered, the staff ran out the back as I went in and there were all sorts of clothes and bags from designer brands and sweatshop conditions which, I discovered. I later told my uni tutor about this during a marketing class where we were discussing products labelled ‘Made In Britain’ and why I would now never purchase them because I had seen realistically the places they had come from. Anyhow I stuck out this internship for a week before I’d had enough and later quit.
My second internship was not much better, it was at a newspaper where almost everyday the fashion team either sat around for several hours doing nothing or got sent home because there was nothing to do. Complete waste of time.
My third experience was fashion week…where you can join communities that run workshops for you to go and work for fashion week designers and pitch to them for unpaid work. This was incredibly interesting as no fashion week designers showed! Only their staff who then tried to get you into un-paid work within their studios over fashion week without even expenses oh and you had to interview!
Later I went to a big fashion magazine, yet I didn’t know the following month it was folding. This was my worst experience. There were two ‘work experience’ people, me and this other girl. Not only were we treated horrendously, not given expenses but I was told to sit on my own in the fashion cupboard for the entire fortnight and clear out every press sample (basically a post person) by the end of the week…this is all I did, sat in a cupboard posting samples back some of which had been there over eighteen months…I held out on the placement and did it but it was awful.
I then went further into ‘work placements’ and internships with more magazines and much bigger titles, they were gold-dust opportunities, I’d had no contacts to just get in via the back door through a friend route, so counted myself exceptionally fortunate. These ranged from spending two weeks with great experiences to being called back all summer to assist on photoshoots, receive texts from editors at 6am in the morning telling me they hoped they hadn’t woken me up but could I go across London and pick up suitcases for them and then later on I’d be given further work experience placements back in the office over the year. All this was expenses paid only for travel etc and I agreed to it as I felt it was my best and only opportunity to gain a job after I’d finished studying…little did I know…
They then dropped me, for no reason with no explanation after they’d had me training other interns and doing all sorts of tasks above and beyond, and one day just gave me no explanation and it went no further although I had done nothing wrong and worked like mental because by this point, I had realised you really have to out-perform and no matter how tired or what the task you have to be incredibly patient, bubbly, happy, helpful and on-it!
I then went assisting independent stylists to see if that could help me, I did this via joining a community and I would end up allsorts of places, meeting them in their hotel rooms or at their dodgy apartments across London…these were all strangers, at times I was worried about safety but i continued to try because I wanted a career so badly. This was the worst, these people won’t pay you anything, they will expect you to do anything and everything and they won’t help you any further than allowing you to drag four times your own weight in suitcases around London all day long for several days.
Finally, I had finished my studies and had over eighteen months work of placements/internships at some amazing places. I felt confident and started sending out my CV…to find…a lot of fake interviews where the position is filled (this is usually the case) and they’re interviewing you as a process and then offer to follow you on LinkedIn for 12-18 months…I also found a lot of maybes/promises and we’re not really sure if this role is going ahead and a lot of companies trying to convince you to carry on interning instead (when it’s an advertised job) I had actually been to four different fashion schools on top of studying at Masters level and had a whole long real career history behind me, ranging from business manager roles etc, so I was finding all of this incredibly tough.
I’m still going at it 12 months after graduating, have done a bit of freelance work and had to move home temporarily after trying to stay in London to do internships and becoming homeless. Trust me, riding round on London busses overnight, alone for weeks on end just because all you have is an Oyster card and no one in the city but you’re so desperate not to turn down these amazing opportunities to ‘intern’ all in ‘blind-sighted faith’ that someone may give you a minimum wage job isn’t fun! I ended up getting pneumonia and then returned home to carry on applying and getting the train to London (over four hours) to interviews…again which, have already been filled with current employee’s friends or former interns…
I don’t know where the process ends or how you break it etc or if you ever will if you don’t have support in London and you are trying to do it alone. I worked with small companies to huge global firms on internships and the bigger firms were much better/safer and at least you got expenses but it is a case of as soon as your two weeks are up…they have other people to replace you and a six month list of them. You do work 9-5 or 6am-12pm and again the next day and the next and assist on weekends etc. You aren’t forced to at all no, but you definitely wouldn’t dare walk out or not complete a task or ask to go home early…that just is not a possibility unless you want to commit career suicide.
I think it’s a very difficult process especially financially and it’s incredibly heart breaking too at times. I think the Government should just ban work placements and internships and then these companies would have to create jobs! I wrote to my MP and the MP’s in London and all of them responded with rubbish about how they’re now going to create more National Apprentiships instead for young people…but I’m not young, I’m late twenties and I can assure you so are the majority of other people doing fashion internships! I couldn’t believe even the paid interns at these places were 28/29 even older, some had been there five years on minimum wage salaries etc all hoping for one job at the end…’maybe’…’one day’….I just truly don’t know how you can do it.
I hope this gives people some true in-sight into the industry. It’s not all bad and you do have some amazing experiences but the sacrifices are immense and you will be messed around, over-worked, un-paid and at times have to maybe go into questionnable situations but they always say ‘if you want it badly enough.’
Perhaps one day it will work out.
Hi Fashion Intern,
You’ve left me speechless. I feel your pain.
I’ve had some pretty shitty experiences of my own but no way near as many or bad as this.
Jesus. I can’t believe you ended up homeless living on a bus?!!…..
Are you mental?!!
Anyway, I hope you find your break or change your mind and fuck the whole thing off because clearly the industry is a joke and does not deserve you. I haven’t landed my dream job.. I’ve come to realisation that it’s not actually worth it – ‘cool’ careers VERY overrated.
Good luck for the future! x