DEBT AND POOR JOB PROSPECTS SEE NUMBER TAKING THEIR OWN LIVES INCREASE BY MORE THAN A THIRD
*Thinking dark thoughts?
We promise you’re not alone — and there is help available. Please contact PAPYRUS or the Samaritans now. Suicide is always a tragic waste and it’s never the solution to anything. Also see our more recent post Young jobseeker who committed suicide felt ‘demoralised’ by visits to the job centre
The number of students who take their own lives has increased dramatically since the start of the recession, new figures have revealed. Reports that anxiety about student debt is at least partly to blame has triggered concerns that cash-strapped, job-hunting graduates could be similarly vulnerable.
New figures from the Office of National Statistics reveal that between 2007 and 2011 the number of men in full-time higher education committing suicide rose from 57 to 78 – that’s a rise of 36%. Among women, the number almost doubled – from 18 to 34.
A spokesperson for the NUS, Hannah Paterson, said that mental health issues were not new among students – who are away from home and may struggle to manage their workload – but that now “finance and debt problems are adding increasing pressures.”
And there’s more. Just days after the figures were released, an inquest found that 23-year-old student Toby Thorn’s £8,000 debt was a major contributory factor in his suicide in July last year. Toby wrote his suicide note on the back of a letter from Barclays bank demanding the repayment of his £3,000 overdraft. He had racked up an additional £5,000 of student debt after dropping out of his computing course at Angela Ruskin University in his third year. Toby’s mother Anne told the Daily Mail:
“Young people can’t find jobs, so they can’t see a way out of debt. I had no idea his debts were bothering him so much. I don’t believe that’s the only reason why he took his own life but it must have been a big contributing factor. Young people should be encouraged to reach out for help, but debts are making them feel backed into a corner.”
Since Toby’s death, Anne has become a trustee for PAPYRUS a charity which aims to prevent suicide among young people. (If you’re in a bad place right now, please contact them straight away – we promise they’re good folks).
Graduate Fog is deeply concerned about the current state of mind among students and graduates as the cost of a degree soars and the economy continues to make it tough for young people to get their careers going and start earning a decent wage. A story from April 2010 about the death of 21-year-old job-seeker Vicky Harrison is still a very popular page on Graduate Fog, seemingly found by users who discover this site when they Google ‘graduate suicide’. Some of the comments are from those of you having serious difficulties coping with the often harsh reality of life after graduation. Others are from fellow Graduate Foggers simply showing their support. We are continually moved by the honesty that the first group displays here – and well as the care and time that the second spends letting them know they are not alone.
But it seems it’s too early for the experts to be convinced that there is a clear link here. Of the new figures, ONS research officer Andrew Yeap admitted that rising tuition fees and worsening job prospects could be involved – but warned against drawing conclusions due to the small numbers involved.
*Thinking dark thoughts?
We promise you’re not alone – and there is help available. Please contact PAPYRUS or the Samaritans now. Suicide is always a tragic waste and it’s never the solution to anything.
*Is graduate suicide set to rise?
Do you worry that spiralling student debt and anxiety about future job prospects could trigger a rise in graduate suicide – or are there too many other factors involved to be able to make that link? If you’re a graduate who’s come through a difficult time, how did you manage to turn things around – and what do you know now that you wish you knew then?
Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Don’t do it, you’ll hurt so many people and lose your potential to contribute to the world. I’m speaking as someone who was tempted to do it several times and suffered depression for 6 years. I’m finally beating it but it’s been incredibly hard. Dealing with stigma and ignorance just makes it worse. The problem is when you are only 20-21 a few years feels like forever and it’s only when you get a bit older that you appreciate it’s only a small proportion of your life. I’d advice anyone struggling to contact Mind as well, they offer great face-to-face support services and you can self-refer, you don’t need to see a GP first.
Thanks Caitlyn, I’m glad to hear things are looking brighter for you these days.
If anyone would like to contact Mind, the website is here: http://www.mind.org.uk/
That’s OK Tanya, to be honest my job prospects are still pretty rubbish, I’ve done lots of voluntary work but there are still always people with more experience when it comes to finding paid work. I’ve just had to adjust my mindset and accept that I might never get a job or that I’ll have to try and find my niche through being self-employed. Now I focus on my family, working for causes I believe in and hobbies. I’m looking for paid work again now but making sure I don’t let it damage my health like before.
Am wondering whether any Graduate Foggers want to participate in a research study into graduate unemployment and mental health, also into the usefulness of services available to support grads?
If they do, please Google my blog item “Graduate Opportunities Blues” for details of this University of Liverpool managed study, the criteria for inclusion in the project and the anticipated results from it.
Chris Cockshott is the Principal Researcher to speak to (email Christopher.Cockshott@liverpool.ac.uk or phone 0151 795 5324).
Chris’s research gives a voice to grads wanting to tell government (and the rest of us) what it’s like when your professional career’s blocked before you’ve had the chance to get started and what you think of the services supposedly there to help you.
As someone who has experienced depression, low income and bereavement through suicide, I have every sympathy with people who are struggling. Just one point: be a bit careful with statements like “is graduate suicide set to rise?” especially in tweets. They could be inadvertently ‘encouraging’ it.
Hi Maxine, I thought quite carefully about this story, as I certainly did not want to be seen to be encouraging anything. However on balance I felt it was more important to start the discussion and be honest about what’s happening – and for graduates to feel there was somewhere for them to be honest about how they’re feeling. Does anyone else feel that the tone of the article is off? If so I will happily edit it. Thanks x
I can see why they would be on the rise for graduates. I had a part-time job whilst undertaking a degree and I was still in that same part-time job a year and a half (ish) after completing my degree.
Thankfully I had some great coping mechanisms, but there are a lot of dark days being a graduate who is underemployed (and my position wasn’t as bad as those who are completely unemployed). I have personally witnessed my friends, without even the joy of a part-time job, be badly affected by job market woes. I’ve seen close friendstake anti-depressants (and hide from their close friends and family that they’re on them) all because they have felt beaten down by the job market. It’s horrible.
The only thing that cheered a friend of mine up was a temp job in Asda… He was so happy to be working and earning by that point – didn’t care what in – because it meant he wasn’t seeing the same faces and same four walls day in day out. He lost the job shortly after (it was only temp work) and the depression came back and the anti-depressants resumed.
I was lucky to have my part-time job that kept me kind-of sane; he was lucky to have a supporting family and good friends around him; but there are people out there who have neither.
One stranger to another – Caitlyn is right, suicide is a permanent problem to a temporary solution. It’s simply not feasible that you never get a job in your whole adult life – from 20 to retirement. Bear it out, there’s light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks for the optimism CD. Unfortunately I do think it’s possible our country is in a permanent state of decline though and the job market may never recover enough to absorb those of us without a text book CV 🙁
@Tanya, as for tone I’d say “are graduates next” sounds a bit trite.
Otherwise it’s sensitively done.
I sometimes wonder if we could have been better prepared for life after university or at least more resilient in general.
I say this because it seems like the majority of the people I know have gone through some kind of serious crisis since leaving university. Several people have had to have counselling, others nervous breakdowns from stress and others have been treated for depression all within a few years of graduation. I would not be surprised at this happening to some people after uni but not this many surely?
I don’t think the “work hard and you’ll get a good job” message we had in our youth has helped us cope with the rubbish job market and our reduced prospects as graduates.
“Money is the root of all evil” seems an appropriate saying here. Undergraduates and graduates cannot and should not be held responsible for overdrafts and debts they incur. Financial institutions, government and universities, as well as student organisations each play a role in the lives of students. The biggest pressure placed on poorer students is how to finance an “undergraduate lifestyle” – all the expense without a full-time job that is needed to finance it.
When I was looking at opening a student account to put my student loan, the main bit of advice was to go with s bank that offers a good overdraft facility. There and then, before a student has even got to university, he or she is having credit waved in their face, set up to get into debt. Lessons on budgeting are a load of ******** (insert your chosen expletive), whether given by banks, universities or the NUS because when your ‘rich’ friends are going out to the nightclub or to a society meeting (often involving a pub), all financial advice goes out the window because who wants to be stuck in their flat again and risk getting a reputation of “Billy Nomates”.
An “undergraduate lifestyle” is an endless expense, and students are encouraged to get into the habit of spending beyond their means from the moment they arrive at university. During the week before lectures, there is a full itinerary of field trips and events organised by lecturers that needs financing, £10-15 a day for pub lunch/dinner, a burger or sandwiches for lunch, any souvenir shopping. Lecturers obviously assume that students who go to university are often supported by well-heeled parents AND a student loan and can well-afford these days out. Yes, bonding is good – that’s not my beef.
Then you have Fresher’s Week! How much can you spend on drink, meals out, new dress for a particular evening? £50, a conservative estimate. Then you have Watetstones ‘conveniently’ placed within each university and a reading list given you. Of course, lecturers don’t push students to go on a spending spree and there is a well-stocked library. How naive! Universities and bookstores are laughing all the way to the bank. All they need is a small amount of money but spent by a lot of students. I never bought a single book during my three years and I graduated 2:1.
Then there is the divide as seen by the student societies. Sports societies cost more than the Book Club. How many young poorer students have dreamt of a winter holiday snowboarding in the French Alps but their parents couldn’t afford it? The student gets to university and there’s a society organising such a trip – a chance to get away and be with some great mates who share your interest. How to finance it? Student Loan! Then, there’s the Christmas Ball at £20 a ticket just to get through the door – add £20 for food and drink, oh also £20 if hiring a dress or suit. Or why not buy a new dress or suit, treat yourself with your NUS Extra card, only to be used in conjunction with top shops, not your local Primark or Matalans!
Am I getting my point across? Students are cash cows set up to get into debt by banks, universities and the retail industry, each getting their own slice. When the debt mounts up and there’s no way to pay, you have to give your pound of flesh. Young people should not be given their student loan once every three months, but on a monthly basis – and no overdraft facility! Law and medical students, for instance, who may need to spend a lot on books or other items in one go, should be given a voucher and not cash into their account. Housing associations and universities would survive on this new arrangement, although many would cry about extra expense to the taxpayers to administer such a system.
Yes, students are responsible adults, so let’s treat them with some respect and not exploit them. In the real world, responsible adults have no option but to budget on a monthly basis. Overdrafts are as bad as payday loans. In suicide, it is wrong that the individual is held solely responsible for his or her own actions – many more have a responsibility and a duty of care.
Totally agree with you Catherine and Brian. I was academic but naive and unworldly. I’d never had a job before I went to university because my parents supported me and I was so bookish and shy that I didn’t have many friends to go out with-hence I didn’t need much money. I totally believed all the “get a degree and you’ll find a good job” hype-and the message was any degree, no one pointed out that arts degrees don’t help much for securing work. I did ask tutors at school for advice on options other than uni but was given one book and left on my own. They just kept repeating that uni was the best option. I went mainly because it seemed less scary than trying to find a job/career when I felt so inexperienced. My family wanted me to go too because they thought it would help me find a good job (in their day it guaranteed one, hell they both secured a decent job for the civil service with 5 O level passes and no interview aged 17-they are 60 FYI) and I was academic enough. Now days most people are practically children at 18, having never managed their own finances etc. I agree with Brian that it’s exploitation to throw loans at them. I didn’t ever get a loan as my parents paid for my fees, accommodation and a bit of spending money. I also had a part time job. Many of my friends had both student loans and bank loans, living for the day and never thinking of how they would pay it back. One has only secured a decent salary now, aged 29, and has finally realised how much she owes and how it will prevent her some of the doing things she wants. It seems impossible now but I didn’t use the internet until I was 18 (I’m nearly 30 now) and so I hadn’t heard of amazon or places to get discount books-I spent a ton of money at the on-site Waterstones, not realising that there were cheaper options.
Another point is that society and the government have become particularly hostile to the unemployed in recent years-with all the ‘scrounger’ propaganda. This means graduates-and most other unemployed people-feel ashamed and worthless on top of all the other difficulties being unemployed brings.
@Brian & Caityln.
I don’t quite agree with you about being prepared, money and some other points, but I want to make constructive comments.
I think the best way to manage your money is to take out a week budget in cash at the start of the week, and when that is gone, it is gone, you can’t spend anymore.
Personally, I think it is impossible to live on a Student Loan and Maintenance Grant. The Student Bar beckons like the Sixth Form Common Room. You have to go regularly because that’s where it’s happening. Relaxing environment, music, mates and time to forget your worries. It is essential and the first pint is just to wet your whistle, the second is when you start to unwind, the third is when you start to have a laugh. That’s six squid there. I would make a point of hanging out at the Student Bar once a week. But I went without decent food – smoked salmon only twice a week and cavear once a week.
I reckon that the vast majority of students fix a budget and stick to it. Most probably go to the Bank of Mum and Dad when they’ve blown the budget. They probably resist the pressures most weeks, but occasionally loosen their grip now and again. Already on a tight budget, how many clothes shops offer an ‘easy’ solution through store cards. One day, maybe when you need to cheer yourself up after your boyfriend or girlfriend has dumped you, or you find out your Dad’s been hitting your Mum again and you’re stuck at uni unable to do anything, and you’re the sort of person to bottle up your emotions. Or maybe you just feel down in the dumps – you slip once and spend a bit more than you expected. Once is okay, but even just three or four times in a long academic year can be enough to sink the boat.
I think it’s essential to talk about undergraduates as well as graduates in this thread. But, are graduates next? I think there’s more financial support for graduates than undergraduates and more opportunities to find work. When I graduated, claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance and Housing Benefit was like coming up on the lottery! After a few months, I got a Call Centre job that lasted six months, followed by 11 months unemployed. I had my personal faith, a good support network and I wasn’t ashamed to claim for benefits – and sound finances. I think graduates without these things must feel very isolated and lonely.
In what world is there more financial support for graduates than undergraduates?
If you want to change profession, where does the money for training come from? If you need to move to find work, where does the money for at least a month’s rent + food + council tax come from? If you have a family who are drowning themselves in debt because their useless fully grown adult son can’t find some way of supporting themselves, where does the money come from? IF you get a job, and then the commute along costs over £200, again, where does the money come from?
*£200 a month. Goddamn edit button
@Jacob, a lot of what you’re asking for comes from your own pocket. I’m talking about basic financial support. I suppose when I mean ‘greater’ financial support, I mean the government will help you to establish yourself as an independent person, although this may involve moving back with your parents for two or three months after finishing university. The financial support I mean is the bare minimum safety net provided by the Welfare State for those who do not have family members who can help them. In an effort to try and prevent yourself from starting on a downward spiral towards clinical depression, where you can only recover with medical treatment, graduates who cannot get a graduate job should adjust their expectations and plans within a short timeframe after finishing university. Parents need to adjust their expectations for their children and in some cases should be open to a range of possible outcomes for their sons and daughters long before they graduate. So many people seem to plan their children’s lives. When my university course finished in June 2008, when the financial crisis was taking hold, I started looking for a temporary job until my Postgraduate loan application was passed. I had already been offered a postgraduate place at the University of Nottingham and I got the required 2:1. In July 2008 I received a rejection from the government-sponsored bank. Naturally, I was gutted and I couldn’t see a way forward. I didn’t have money to travel around the country for graduate job interviews and I couldn’t get any job in Derby. I would soon end up homeless and my only option in Derby would be the emergency night shelter for homeless people.
I was finished as a graduate just three months after finishing university. I rang a friend in my hometown and asked if he had a spare room I could live in. I spent September 2008 applying solely for graduate roles. By October 2008, I took a non-graduate role in a call centre and that signalled the end of my graduate prospects.
Greater financial support for graduates comes at a personal sacrifice. In order to get the financial support – and at the same time, keep your independence you attained whilst at university – you have to be flexible to the point where you make your own way in the world in less than desirable circumstances. Are you prepared to move out from home when you are still unemployed and live in “DSS” property, a grotty shared house with other unemployed people? You can then get Housing Benefit, apply for a Hardship Loan for essential household items, join a credit union and get a loan.
As you probably know, the state has always been based on least eligibility and will provide support only to keep a person from falling into destitution or helping the person out of destitution. So, an unemployed graduate can apply for Jobseekers Allowance and if he cannot or does not want to remain at his parents home, he gets support with housing cost. For me, I got more spare cash as an unemployed graduate through JSA than I got when I was an undergraduate, although only because I lived at a friend’s house.
Money for training comes in the form of a three-week NVQ 2 course paid for by the Jobcentre – if you’re lucky. I got NVQ 2 Retail with Customer Service training thrown, which helped me get my first job after leaving university. I couldn’t afford to pay for the first month’s salary, and although I had to apply for permanent work to meet JSA requirements, I prayed I would get only a temporary job.
“Useless adult sons” who seem to want to sponge off Mum and Dad probably have parents who care deeply for their offspring’s welfare and, although tensions rise, wouldn’t want to see them live on a bedsit in “bedsit land”.
Commuting costs? Well, only when you reach 25 can you expect assistance with Working Tax Credit, if your salary is too low. Yes, life is tough and will probably be like that for some graduates for the first five or six years after finishing university.
Keeping your sanity through it all is the biggest challenge.
I would just like to add that, although my comments are really long, I needed to write it. I hope that more people will give much longer comments and write more what they really feel.
@Brian, that’s a great comment, well done for being so honest about your experience. I agree expectations need to be adjusted sooner, I got clinically depressed within a year and a half of finding only a few rubbish temp jobs between long stretches unemployed. Luckily my family were supportive so I didn’t have the financial pressure, although it was disappointing to be still watching the money. The choices for people without family support, living in substandard council accommodation etc are grim and you need a strong personality to cope with it. With the current political and media backlash against benefit claimants you can see why many would be too proud to claim them until they were absolutely desperate. Totally wrong in my opinion, most unemployed people are looking for work and unhappy being on the dole. All the demonising of the unemployed is just kicking us whilst we’re down-and undermining someone’s already fragile confidence will be counterproductive to them securing employment.
A friend of mine is forced to live in a DSS shared house with strangers. He’s 27, they are all 18 and smoke weed all day and make noise day and night. He has a job and is a graduate, yet due to a period of unemployment and a breakup with a partner he is unable to afford anywhere else to live.
The problem I’ve had is in accepting that I will probably always be financially dependent on either my parents, a partner of the state in the form of in work benefits, when I always took for granted that if I worked hard I would be able to make my own money and pay my own way. I don’t care how normal it becomes to receive in work benefits, for me independence was always something to aspire to.
Living at home for the long term has also been a bitter pill to swallow, especially as for most of the time I have been in full time work. I thought it would be a case of move home for a few months until I find my feet and then I’d either be able to rent a little bedsit of my own or find some like minded people (who don’t bring drugs home or play loud music all night) to share with.
I would not feel safe in the kind of DSS house share Caitlyn mentions but the problem for me is that my town does not have a nearby university or much that would draw young jobseekers to the area so my housing choice is limited to DSS houseshares or my parent’s house.
My life is so far from what I thought it would be by this stage and I don’t even feel like I have high expectations. I just want to be able to fund a modest lifestyle out of my own pocket through my own hard work and actually feel like an adult.
@Catherine, I know what you mean. I’ve found it hard to accept I’m dependent on my parents and the state, I also believed if I worked hard I would be able to earn enough to support myself. It is infantilising, disempowering and confidence-sapping to have to rely on others to live.
I’m almost 30 now with no prospect of leaving home yet-I’ve accepted it: having survived a serious depression I now count my blessings and don’t dwell on things. I get on well with my family at least-but I do know some people will look down on me for being in this situation still. Luckily, I no longer care.
Obviously I’m not saying all DSS houses are like that, but I expect most are pretty grim.
Very sad to hear this. For some people (like myself), I imagine living on your own, not having any friends, standoffish lecturers and a tough workload can be quite overbearing at times. It takes some maturity and experience to see past it all.
As a returning student the debt has been a huge bone of contention and it’s something young people don’t need. It’s made me consider time and time again if going is worth it.
It’s a tough situation most definitely but I haven’t found that the only choices are DSS households or my parents’ house… I lived in a shared house while on housing benefit but everyone else was working. I just got a reduction on the council tax and tried to kick in whatever I could from my JSA to make things easier on everyone else. It wasn’t a bad house, the next door neighbours were sometimes noisy but it wasn’t dirty or full of layabouts! Unfortunately with the government’s plan to take away housing benefit from under 25s, god only knows where people will end up now… I used my time while unemployed to get back on my feet, I would have had NO CHANCE without the housing benefit. Would have been homeless or sleeping on someone’s floor.
If you are not rich nor have property to rent, you depend on someone or something to give you money, food and home. That someone or something will own your time, your will and your attention and will use it despite your own needs. You will live, work, spend your time only to fullfill your master plans and interests, you will barely have time to eat or to take care of your body. If you do feel sad, use your money to pay for psiquiatric medication and medical attention. Your problems are yours alone but your time and energy is for your master use only. If you do practice suicide, nobody will care, there are others to fill your role. There is no success, only failure and exploitation in such society.
“if you do practice suicide, nobody will care” Maybe society as a whole won’t care but believe me your family and friends will, as will the medical professionals/police who will have to witness what you’ve done to yourself. Society as a whole can be cruel but there are still plenty of caring people out there that feel for people suffering and don’t judge you on your ability to make money.
Suicide in graduates will rise and i think its to do with the pressure of the debt, but also the dissapointment of being a failure in life after working so hard. I wanna commit suicide right now there are days im okay then days like today i feel like giving up, but i dunno the ressesion has hit hard and more and more students will strugle with the emotions and self confidence.
Hi @Jjjjjj
Sorry to hear you’re having such a tough time. You are always welcome to contribute on Graduate Fog where there is a whole community of people who know how you feel. But we are not specialists, which is why I would strongly advise you to get in touch with one of the many excellent organisations that are there to help people who feel the way you do. I highly recommend:
The Samaritans: http://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help-you/contact-us
08457 90 90 90* (UK)
1850 60 90 90* (ROI)
(24 hours)
and Papyrus:
http://www.papyrus-uk.org/contact
HOPELineUK 0800 068 41 41
Mon-Fri 10:00 am to 5:00 pm and 7:00 pm to 10:00 pm.
Weekends 2:00 pm to 5:00 pm.
Hi all
I’ve just discovered an organisation called Young Minds UK, who have a brilliant website with loads of info about where to go for help if you’re struggling.
This is a good link for depression: http://www.youngminds.org.uk/for_children_young_people/whats_worrying_you/depression
This is a good one for if you’re looking for support with austism or Asperger’s:
http://www.youngminds.org.uk/for_children_young_people/whats_worrying_you/autism_aspergers
This is good for anxiety:
http://www.youngminds.org.uk/for_children_young_people/whats_worrying_you/anxiety
And this is the general page for all sorts off issues, it’s just called ‘What’s worrying you?’
http://www.youngminds.org.uk/for_children_young_people/whats_worrying_you
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