CHEAPSKATE PROGRAMME IS “A NEW LOW” FOR GRADUATE EMPLOYERS, SAYS TOP LAWYER
* GRADUATE FOG EXCLUSIVE *
** STORY PICKED UP BY THE GUARDIAN! **
A flagship graduate programme at the controversial outsourcing firm Capita includes up to 16 weeks of compulsory unpaid training, Graduate Fog can exclusively reveal. The scheme – which appears to be structured to minimise recruitment costs for the firm – has been called “a new low” for graduate employers.
It is unclear how the firm expects participants on the Capita Novus graduate programme to survive without a salary during their four months of training, which takes place in London and Manchester.
When challenged by Graduate Fog, a Capita spokesperson appeared unconcerned that such a lengthy unpaid period risked putting off applicants from poorer backgrounds, even boasting that the training was ‘free of charge’. (Yes, they’re pitching this as a generous offer. We’re still wrapping our brains around that one too). Here is the advert:
Graduate Fog is deeply suspicious of the Capita Novus graduate scheme – and a top barrister specialising in employment law has echoed our concerns. Although the bizarrely structured programme appears to comply with National Minimum Wage (NMW) law as the training happens before the graduates’ official contract starts, the lawyer told us he has never heard of anything like it, and called it “a new low” for graduate employers.
He added: “It is a pretty unattractive policy which gives Capita all the advantages. The training provided ‘free of charge’ benefits the company and no doubt gives them a chance to decide who they want to keep on.”
Here’s what happened when Graduate Fog challenged Capita over their Novus graduate scheme:
To: Capita Group Press Office
From: Graduate Fog
Date: Monday 24 July 2017
Subject: Questions about your Novus graduate programmeHi there,
I run the careers website Graduate Fog. One of my readers has alerted me to the fact that adverts for the Capita Novus graduate programme state that the scheme includes up to 16 weeks of unpaid training.
I would be grateful if you could please explain:
1) How Capita feels this fits with the UK’s National Minimum Wage law?
2) How Capita expects successful candidates to support themselves during this training period?
3) Why Capita appears to show no concern that applicants from less well-off backgrounds are likely to be highly anxious about the prospect of having to support themselves during such a long training period, whilst not receiving a wage?
A swift response would be much appreciated.
Thank you,
Tanya de Grunwald
Founder, Graduate Fog
Capita replied:
To: Graduate Fog
From: Capita Group Press Office
Date: Tuesday 25 July 2017Hi Tanya,
Please see below for our line:
A spokesperson for Capita IT Resourcing, said: “The Capita Novus IT skills programme equips people with industry based training and transferable skillsets within the Skills for the Information Age (SFIA) framework. The training provided is free of charge with a combination of classroom and distance learning. The course is designed to allow the participants to continue undertaking work and other activities outside of the free training. The objective is to bridge the gap between graduate-level experience and the requirements of employers, enabling graduates to overcome barriers and enter a sector with high opportunities for career progression. Once the training has been successfully completed Capita secures roles for the majority of participants across a wide range of organisations, including Capita itself.”
Background information
This Novus programme is entirely separate from Capita plc’s own corporate graduate and apprenticeship schemes.
Still confused? We were too – so we wrote back:
To: Capita Group Press Office
From: Graduate FogThanks for this.
However, I am still a little unclear as I have never head of anything like this before.
Do graduates do this training before or after they have been offered a place on the Novus programme? In other words, is the training part of the programme, or part of the selection process for the programme?
This bit: “Once the training has been successfully completed Capita secures roles for the majority of participants across a wide range of organisations…”
…suggests that there is no guarantee that there is definitely a job available at the end of the training.
Also, should I assume 1) Capita feels confident that the structure of the Novus programme is entirely compliant with UK NMW law? And 2) that Capita is not concerned that it could put off candidates from poorer backgrounds? (I notice your spokesperson has not responded to those aspects of my original enquiry.)
Thanks again
Tanya
The spokesperson then tried to speak to us on the phone, but we said we’d prefer to stick to email to avoid confusion. We then received this (Capita’s answers in bold):
To: Graduate Fog
From: Capita Group Press Office
Hi TanyaIn response to your questions:
Do graduates do this training before or after they have been offered a place on the Novus programme? In other words, is the training part of the programme, or part of the selection process for the programme?
>The programme is the training.
This bit: “Once the training has been successfully completed Capita secures roles for the majority of participants across a wide range of organisations…”
…suggests that there is no guarantee that there is definitely a job available at the end of the training.
> There is no guarantee of a job but the majority of people who successfully complete the course are placed in a role.
Also, should I assume 1) Capita feels confident that the structure of the Novus programme is entirely compliant with UK NMW law? And 2) that Capita is not concerned that it could put off candidates from poorer backgrounds? (I notice your spokesperson has not responded to those aspects of my original enquiry.)
This is a training course, not employment.
Wait… WHAT? So this ‘graduate programme’ isn’t even a job? Exasperated, we wrote back one last time:
To: Capita Group Press Office
From: Graduate FogSo graduates do 2-4 months of unpaid Capita training, and then Capita decides whether to offer them a job (which pays £24-27,000) after that. Have I understood that correctly?
If so, can you explain the reference to being ‘committed to the programme for two years’? What happens after that – do the graduates still have a job or is this just a two year contract? And which bit is the programme – the unpaid training bit, the rest of the two years, or the whole thing?
I have to say, this is one of the most bizarre, complicated and unclear ‘graduate programmes’ I have ever seen or heard of. Why can’t Capita select successful candidates up front and then pay them while you train them, like any other big graduate employer? Is it just a way to duck out of paying people while they train to work for you?
I am also extremely surprised that you are not more concerned about the number of graduates who will be put off from applying by the prospect of having to fund such a long period of unpaid training.
They replied:
To: Graduate Fog
From: Capita Group Press OfficeI would recommend calling me to explain.
This is not a graduate scheme. It is a training programme, after which the majority of people will be placed in a job on a two-year contract — most of these jobs are not with Capita, but with other employers.
Sorry, Capita – but if your graduate programme is so complicated that it needs to be personally explained to individual people on the phone, something is very wrong with it. (Also, since when was a ‘graduate programme’ not the same as a ‘graduate scheme’?). Tanya de Grunwald, founder of Graduate Fog, says:
“However Capita tries to frame it, the structure of their graduate scheme is bizarre — I’ve never seen anything like it.
“Rather than recruiting graduates and then training them as salaried employees, they appear to be training them as non-employees and then choosing whether to recruit them, presumably because it is cheaper. And dressing this up as a generous ‘free of charge’ opportunity really takes the biscuit.
“A cynical observer might say this is Capita doing what is does best — ruthlessly minimising its own costs, whilst staying just inside the law. The losers, of course, are the graduates, forced to fund themselves during this period, gambling on the hope that they will be one of the lucky ones hired by Capita at the end of their training. Living in London or Manchester for four months is likely to cost them around £4,000.
“What is surprising is Capita’s casual disregard for fair access. Nowadays, most big UK employers are desperate to improve the diversity of their graduate intake, and know that such long period of unpaid training risks putting off applicants from poorer backgrounds. That Capita appears not to understand this — or not to care — suggests they don’t understand today’s recruitment landscape as well as they think they do.”
* SHOULD CAPITA PAY ITS GRADUATES WHILE THEY TRAIN TO WORK THERE?
Or is it reasonable for an employer to offer graduates ‘free of charge’ training before they decide whether to hire them? Post your thoughts and comments below…
Two issues.
1. More fool any candidate willing to indulge any employer who expects the candidate to work for the employer for even a single day. However, if an employer requires that a candidate attends a place of business between specifies days/times, are told what to do, how to do it, when to do it, under supervision, then the candidate is subsject to a defacto Contract of Employment, and legally entitled to at least National Minimum Wage.
If not…then the employer will be in Breach of Contract.
…look forward to the case going through the courts.
2. Bewary of any employer offering “Free Training”.
The likelihood is that any “Free Training” will be covered by the candidate signing a document, which will allow the employer to claim a sum of money from the Government equivalent to the cost of an Apprenticeship….or, worse, the candidate being required to take out a Student Loan (or Higher Educational Loan) without their knowledge or consent.
If this is the case…We are talking FRAUD.
There’s many of these so called “graduate schemes”. Many train you to be a “professional IT / Business Condultant” *cough* bullshit *cough* but “charge” you £22,000 if you leave the training within the first two years.
Two things –
1. Why are such contracts allowed to exist?
2. When graduates get rejected from every single graduate scheme they applied for, what then?
Terribly depressing and a really tough challenge for unemployed grads.
@Life is depressing: most graduates will never get onto a grad scheme.
This is a total con! Shocking. As a graduate, you should already hold these skills. That is the point of University! Of forking £9k a year + maintenance fees.
The people who get onto graduate schemes get there because their rich parents funded their unpaid internship or sent them off to volunteer in Ghambia to build mud huts. I’m being sarcastic but it’s not far from the truth. The people who get on the good graduate schemes have strong personal advantages in their lives. They DO NOT come from council estates. So so many times I look these people up on linkedin and their profile reads the same old script… studies from Warwick/Imperial/Oxbridge with a summer internship in highly rated company (how?) followed by immediate employment onto said companies graduate scheme. Rinse and repeat.
Can these people programme? Have they published work in a journal? No. I’m more capable than they are but they tick all the right boxes because mummy and daddy are rich and afforded them more opportunities in life.
Companies like capita take advantage of the suckers lower down the pecking order and they will NEVER be challenged as MPs have shares in Capita.
Shove that in your pipe and smoke it.
Top lawyer? Now that’s funny! Leigh Day are a bunch of ‘no win, no fee’ ambulance chasers. If your quote had have come from a credible top 100 law firm then it might hold some merit but purporting someone at Leigh Day as being a top lawyer is fake news.
No surprise you managed to get this in the guardian considering this blog is written by someone who freelance for the very same publication.
@Jonathan Landon Oh dear – sorry you didn’t seem to like this story! We feel it is really important and are pleased that the Guardian have picked it up in order to give it the wider audience attention it deserves. Two things:
1) The lawyer we spoke to for this Graduate Fog blog post has nothing to do with Leigh Day. We asked for him to be named but he prefers to be anonymous as he is not in the business of publicising his work in this way. The Guardian chose to contact Leigh Day for a quote to accompany their article – that decision was nothing to do with Graduate Fog.
2) Would you be able to explain your issue with us passing stories like this to the Guardian? We have always been proud of our strong relationship with them, and no one has ever raised it as a problem before.
Thanks,
Tanya
@Life is Depressing for U – I agree there are big problems with a recruitment bias towards graduates who have had a more comfortable start in life, in many different ways, in including those you address in your comment.
What I can say is that there are some who are starting to really take this stuff seriously – including Grant Thornton who are one of the best I think. Numerous graduate employers now use ‘blind’ recruitment techniques including removing the name of the uni where someone studied, and also the name of the candidate (in an effort not to allow bias against those from different cultural backgrounds. Others are now offering to pay travel and accommodation expenses so that candidates from far away will be able to attend their interview without being out of pocket. All these are small things but add up to levelling the playing field a little at least.
Also, have you heard of contextual recruitment? It is technology that allows big employers to assess candidates not on their pure results, but to factor in WHERE they obtained those results from. For example, someone who got a B from a not-great comprehensive school in a deprived area may well be a much stronger candidate from someone who got an A from a top private school.
For me, one of the most surprising things about this Capita story is how little they seem to have thought about the risk of putting off candidates from poorer backgrounds by including such a long stretch of unpaid training as part of the ‘programme’. I speak to graduate employers all the time and I can’t think of any other firm who would not be aware of how short-sighted this type of cost-cutting is likely to be. Believe it or not, they spend a LOT of money trying to attract candidates from a range of backgrounds, and including 4 months of unpaid training in their programme would risk scrapping all that investment in an instant!
@Joe – I agree this is shocking! The fact that graduates may not be 100% ready to start a big new job on Day 1 is NOT a new problem… but what IS new is employers openly refusing to recruit based on potential (which is what they used to do). Here, Capita provides one of the most extreme examples of this trend that I have seen. It is hard to see that is it anything other than simple penny-pinching, dressed up as a fabulous ‘opportunity’ for graduates to gain ‘free-of-charge’ training. Distorting the picture by presenting it like that is actually rather creepy, I think. No wonder so many graduates are beginning to believe the lie that their employer is doing them such a big favour by taking them on…
@Jay Ritchie – True, but graduate schemes are not the only (or best) option for everyone! It frustrates me that employers from smaller companies still find it so difficult to recruit graduates, and that graduates seem to find it difficult to find them. One of my top pieces of advice for graduates who feel they are getting nowhere is to spend more time researching employers you haven’t heard of and apply to THEM instead! Your odds of getting the job will be so much higher if fewer people are applying. My theory is that graduates are all applying for the same 20-50 top graduate schemes, which is really limiting your chances!
@ Life is depressing. I’m not an expert on the legality of these agreements, but it would certainly be interesting to see what happened if a graduate challenged a company for this sort of thing. And from a practical point of view, I don’t know how the company could enforce such a punitive fine. I’m pretty sure they can’t just start taking money out of your account, or send the bailiffs round if you don’t pay up. I wonder if these clauses are there as a deterrent but something they actually know would be very difficult to enforce in reality?
Hi there,
Thanks for writing this, i wish i had seen this before falling victim to Capita’s scheme.
They have left me high and dry and i’m currently struggling to find employment.
You can’t imagine the stress of going through 8 weeks training + 90 days only to receive nothing and be worse off than you started.
Capita have worded their contact in a way that keeps them on the good side of the law and it’s wrong! I’ve spoken to ACAS and they couldn’t provide any help at all.
Before i’m listed as the fool that fell for their scheme please understand that I did research and I had pretty much reached a dead-end in terms of employment.
Schemes like this should not be allowed, i’m considering seeking advice from a solicitor.
@Zara
Thanks for your comment. The lawyer we’re working with may well be able to offer you some advice, as he is working on a number of cases like this at the moment. Fill in the form on the Contact Us page and send some more details about your case, including any fees Capita have requested from you, and how much (if anything) you have repaid so far.
https://graduatefog.co.uk/about/contact-graduate-fog/
Thanks!
Tanya
I did the capita grad scheme back in 2011. Worst decision ever but I was desperate.
3 months of mediocre training led by an internal employee who did not seemed experienced enough, followed by a period of uncertainty of looking for a contracting job doesn’t exactly shout out what a graduate scheme is. Capita should rename this other than a grad scheme as it puts the whole name into shame.
Capita will only officially employee you once you found a contracting job – and they will only support your expenses for the first two weeks of the job. So if you are from Manchester and you found a job in London, you really are screwed with the high cost of living. At the time they paid you £21k ONLY during the time you was contracted.
So if you was out of a contract (which I often found myself in) then they paid you a minimum wage – the only good thing about this was they effectively paid you to stay at home whilst they look for another job for you. Although I would rather work full time for experience.
The training scheme itself was mediocre because I only came in 3 days a week with basic testing training. And if you failed to pass the USB qualification you’re required to pay for it yourself again.
To make things worse the sort of jobs I done wasn’t exactly much to shout about – I had to grit my teeth and test labelling bottles and print them like a factory. Not exactly cutting edge IT work that Capita shouts about when they try to recruit candidates.
However I understand it’s tough for graduates out there and having capita on your CV can go a long way (it did for me). Even though capita themselves are not the quality company people expect. No wonder they got the nickname Crapita….
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