YOUNG, RURAL JOBSEEKERS HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN, SAYS ONE GRADUATE
It’s tough finding a proper, paid graduate job at the moment, wherever you live. But when home is a long way from the nearest big city and you don’t have a car, rural graduates say it’s even harder to get a foot in the door.
Here, Graduate Fog meets Nik, 25, who lives with his parents in a small village in Northamptonshire. Despite graduating from Leeds University in 2011 with a first in English and completing his MA in Medieval Studies from the University of York, in September 2012, he is still hunting for a decent graduate job…
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What did you think your life would be like, at 25?
“Like many graduates, I had high hopes of securing a place on a glamorous graduate scheme or the civil service. I assumed I’d be making my own money and living in a nice flat with friends somewhere by now. Instead, I’ve been unemployed for over four months and am yet to find any paid work. I have widened my search to include any sort of office or sales job, but even that isn’t happening. I’ve secured one interview with a local library but was told I was overqualified. At the moment I’m on the dole.”
You have a first and an MA! Why are you struggling to find work?
“I live with my parents in a village in Northamptonshire, five minutes from Corby, a former industrial town that has suffered massively during the recession. Proper graduate level entry jobs appear to be non-existent, even taking into account Leicester or Northampton which are half an hour away. Even basic admin work is difficult to come by, even in larger towns nearby like Corby or Market Harborough.”
So the problem is there simply aren’t enough jobs near you?
“That’s only half of the problem — my lack of transport is the other. When you’re not earning, it simply isn’t possible to run a car, and bus services in my area have been cut to the point that it’s a lottery whether they turn up at all. Being half an hour from Leicester and Northampton may not sound like an awful lot, but with a lack of a car or regular public transport, I may as well be in Scotland.”
If you can’t find a permanent job, can’t you do an internship?
“My friends and I all agree that internships are vital to securing a permanent job these days, but the kind of firms that offer internships seem to be limited to London, Manchester and other big cities. Commuting simply isn’t feasible unless you have parents who can afford to subsidise you. Everything seems to be so much easier when you live near a big city. Even getting to interviews in London or Manchester is difficult and expensive for me — and employers never offer to contribute towards these costs. Most of my undergraduate friends were from the South East originally and all of them are in some sort of work, whether full- or part-time.”
Don’t you have any contacts you could work?
“I took two years out prior to uni working for a local electronics firm — but since then they’ve made large-scale redundancies so there’s no hope of finding work there. Ironically, I delayed going to uni for two years so that I could save some money — which seemed like a smart thing to do at the time, but it really backfired. Many of my friends who went straight to uni or didn’t bother at all were lucky enough to get jobs before the recession hit hardest. Despite my best efforts to plan carefully, it feels like I’ve ended up graduating at the worst possible time.”
What do you wish you’d known when you signed up to uni?
“I didn’t realise what a huge disadvantage it would be living in a rural area, when job-hunting. When I go to the job centre to sign on every other week, I feel as though those of us living outside big cities have been forgotten. And I know I’m not alone — there must be thousands of us. A woman working at the job centre told me quite frankly that she didn’t know what to do with the number of graduates they were getting in. The support simply isn’t there, and neither are the opportunities. I’m worried about the lack of growth in the UK economy — and what that means for those of us trying to get our careers started. If a company is going to invest in the UK, it’s going to be in a big city with rail links and an airport. Where does that leave graduates like me?”
*DO YOU SYMPATHISE WITH NIK?
What’s your experience – is it harder to secure a decent graduate job when you don’t live in or near a big city? Or should Nik just work harder to make the most of the opportunities around him? If your parents live in a rural area but you’ve managed to find work, what tips do you have for any graduates who are still struggling to get their career started?
@Peter
Ouch, that’s a bit harsh, no?! He’s also got a First from Leeds…
I don’t agree. I think it more pragmatic.
A degree in English and an MA in Medieval Studies I’d question the relevance and vagueness of his career notions “a glamorous graduate scheme or the civil service.”
There are other candidates out there who will show more relevance and more clarity in their chosen careers and degrees.
Life isn’t fair. Grow up!
@Peter – fair enough! So you have no sympathy at all? Do you think it’s harder for rural grads than those who live in / near a city?
I’m inclined to agree with Peter (except for the “life isn’t fair” thing – not helpful). You must have chosen to take Medieval Studies for a reason, so what was that reason? The harsh truth – that MA will put employers off, unless you’re applying for a job that has something to do with the medieval. Employers have a hard enough time looking past oddly-chosen degrees as it is (I had someone applying for a job I was hiring for with a degree in Archaeology, and we hesitated before granting him an interview), let alone MAs.
@Sara – interesting, so do you think Nik should remove his MA from his CV?
Not necessarily, but tailoring his applications for every single job he’s applying for is essential. I’d also advise that he addresses the subject in the first paragraph of his covering letter.
He might want to consider leaving it off the CV if he’s applying for standard admin jobs.
Truth be told, as much as it is a bit harsh, it’s the first thought that occurred to me too.
Neither of those subjects really smack me as “practical” subjects – Especially the MA which seems to me to be the sort of MA you would do if it was your intention to go into an academic career or PhD in that subject.
Saying that, he’s clearly a smart lad. The best advice I could give you – Don’t rely on your academic credentials alone. Sell your skills. Shockingly, IT skills are one of the biggest barriers to graduate employment – Despite the fact we *are* the tech generation. I know it sounds ridiculous, but do not omit basic IT skills off of your CV (Word, Excel, Outlook, etc). Ensure you sell yourself as a practical, as well as academic, candidate. That’s my 2c anyway!
I do sympathise with the position and would not like to be in it myself. Do the Job Centre not cover expenses to interviews? Although transport links are not great, if you can at least cover the expense for interview, you aren’t out of pocket. If you do land a job in a city, then you can re-evaluate your living and travel position at the time.
His choice of studies may not be the best choice for getting a job and living in a rural setting, but even if he did have a “practical” degree, he’d still be at a big disadvantage. Almost all of the jobs I’ve been offered for permanent work were in the big cities (Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary). I don’t want to live in a big city. As a result, I have to take part-time or contract jobs and had to move around the country at least once a year to pick up another job in the biological sciences.
Most of my friends who graduated with me and who lived in the bigger urban centers were working full-time in permanent jobs within 2 to 5 years. And I can’t think of any of my friends who live in a small community getting a full-time job (and some of them have been at it for nearly 20 years).
Local employment offices don’t have a clue how to deal with us. Their training classes are geared toward people who dropped out of high school. They did spruce up my resume nicely, but even their class on interview skills was aimed toward people looking to get their first job.
So my choice is to live in a choking crowded polluted noisy city surrounded by concrete and work full-time by commuting who knows how long to a dreary dusty cubicle in a climate-controlled building, or live in a smaller town with clean air, clean water, great lakes and streams for paddling and swimming, huge swathes of forests and wilderness camping within an easy bike ride away, and work part-time. Fortunately, my part-time private work now makes me more money than my government contracts when I was working full-time hours, so I can afford to live in a small town (least till the next recession crash). It took nearly two decades to reach that position, and the way here is littered with people who needed to support a family so took any job they could find—one MSc graduate delivers pizza and has done so for 20 years.
I agree with the others that perhaps Nik’s MA isn’t doing him any favours. As far as graduate schemes, many employers recruit undergrads regardless of their degree; however, an MA in an unrelated subject probably makes him sound like he is too specialised in something not relevant to the job, and therefore might be more likely to leave as soon as something better comes up. So I think it might be helpful if Nik didn’t include the MA on all applications, sad as that is.
Other than that, I definitely sympathise with Nik – it is hard enough getting onto a grad scheme/internship in London, or even get any entry level job. I can’t imagine how hard it must be in the country where opportunities are so much rarer! Nik mentioned having friends in the South East who work – could they maybe ask around for opportunities where they work? Or could he stay with them for a few weeks while looking for a job in that area?
I have a degree in a similar History based field and my thoughts throughout uni were “what else can I do to make myself more appealing to employers?” and I took on other courses, activities and employment outside of my study but in other areas I was interested in. A MA says a lot about you, but if its all you’ve got on your CV then you’ll look weak no matter what you’re applying for. If Nik has other skills and experience gained at uni he should focus on putting that forward in his job hunt.
Do you think it’s harder for rural grads than those who live in / near a city?
No I think it the same, employers don’t recruit via some kind of pastoral matrix.
Do you think its fair to make an entire hypothesis from one interview?
Do you think you missed the elephant in the room?
I ask because on balance 6 other readers seemed to think his choice of subjects were a hindrance.
Well there are certainly more jobs available in/near cities than in rural areas and in that sense yes it must be harder for rural grads to find jobs, that doesn’t have so much of an effect once you get to the applying stage.
If that’s where the issue is, take a good look at your CV (and covering letter!), as the problem will almost certainly be there.
When I graduated I was living at home with my Mum in the very rural Sussex countryside. My intention was always to move to London but obviously I couldn’t afford to do this until I got a job. At nearly every interview I had this was raised as an issue, and I was repeatedly asked when I would be moving to London. I said my intention would be to commute short-term with the intention of moving up as soon as possible. It was very evident that this put a lot of people off – I think they thought I would be unreliable if I was travelling over an hour to get to work.
I’ve been in my current position for 2 years and actually ending up commuting for 6 months before moving to London. It was never an issue, but I definitely think it put me at a disadvantage while I was applying for jobs. With hundreds of applicants per job, employers are looking for ANYTHING to rule you out.
Yes I think its an odd choice of MA but its more about how you market yourself I think. I graduated with a good LLB Law degree and to many people they would think it useful as a “traditional” degree but this is not what i have found. One employer said that they do not consider it to be a “proper” degree and would not admit me onto their graduate program and yet took a practical based dance student? This is what I don’t understand.
The truth is that it’s very tough out there for all graduates, and I’m afraid what I’m about to say won’t cheer you up.
I am a scientist in the civil service and have been working here now for over a decade since I graduated in the late 90s. I’ve been through the boom years when we were almost constantly recruiting new staff, to the situation we’re in now, where available posts are only advertised internally and you need the approval of the Permanent Secretary to advertise a job externally.
A couple of years ago we ran a scheme to take on paid interns for 12 weeks and I was utterly astonished at how many highly qualified graduates with skills coming out of their ears were unemployed. To give you an example, I interviewed one chap who had a double first in Law from Cambridge, an MA in French and spoke 2 other languages – one of which was Chinese Mandarin! And yet he had been completely unable to find a job. We also had someone with a PhD apply to be an intern – a further indication of how tough the job market is.
I don’t think the rural aspect has much to do with it – as long as you state to potential employers that you are happy to move to wherever the job is, there shouldn’t be a problem. I lived in the tiniest little hamlet in deepest, darkest Norfolk when I was applying for graduate jobs and it didn’t hold me back. The sad facts are there just aren’t the jobs available and there are also probably people out there just as qualified as you, if not more so.
But I wish you all the best in your job search.
I sympathise with Nik as I am in the same position but like others have said an MA in medieval studies really isn’t going to help you get a job. Taylor your CV to each role, when i’m applying for retail work I leave my degree off because its not relevant. Not everyone agrees with this method but if you want to earn the pennies you have to get creative, employers are looking for any reason to reject you because there is so much competition.
I found the job centre to be completely useless and unhelpful as they really don’t know what to do with graduates. have you tried volunteering anywhere to build up new skills?
Its a shame that there is not more help for people to relocate. It just seems daft that they would rather pay someone JSA to not work in a place with few jobs rather than help them move to a place where they can actually work. It doens’t help that a lot of entry level jobs don’t necessarily pay enough to live on either.
I can kind of see why employers prefer someone who already lives near the job, less of a risk, but it sucks when you’re stuck living miles away from any decent jobs.
@Catherine
I think this is such an important point…
Hi guys, thanks for all the feedback, it’s good to see some discussion. It’s a shame that the MA has been the main focus, but I suspected that would be the case. It’s an even greater shame that doing an arts or humanities degree is looked down upon now by some commenters on the internet. Fortunately, employers don’t seem to share this prejudice, at least in urban areas: of my friends who’ve managed to get jobs in the south-east (almost exclusively London), three had English degrees, one philosophy, one communications studies, and one theatre studies.
I’d also like to re-emphasise that I worked for two years before going to university, which probably puts me in better stead than most of my peers in terms of job experience. It wasn’t just manning the call centre batteries, but with actual responsibility for making sure the supply chain operated smoothly. It meant that I kept on top of my maths and IT, as well as a whole raft of other business skills. It’s not like I make a song and dance of my education on my CV, I’m not that daft.
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to comment, whether supportive of otherwise.
I have noticed that when I attend interviews outside my home town they have started asking about my connections to the area and whether I have family or friends nearby. I don’t think this should be relevant but if they make it so it is I might start finding long lost relatives in cities where I am going for a job.
It must be difficult actually reaching job interviews in big cities like London if you live in the countryside especially with abysmal local public transport.
Even though I graduated in 2010 I am still trying for decent jobs but I know I should probably give up and just settle for the low paid prospects free job I have at the moment.
And one more thing. People keep saying it is hard out there but they don’t really know the half of it. I started applying for grad schemes and jobs in December 2009 and since then I have kept track of every job that I have applied for in an excel document. 8 days ago I reached 1,500 job applications since December 2009 and have had lots of interviews but no luck. Next year I will have probably hit 2,000.
@Nik
Hi Nick – I certainly hope my comment didn’t come across as “looking down” on a humanities degree. I also have a humanities degree.
I don’t know your reasons for choosing Medieval history, but I do stand by the comment that it is the kind of specialization which takes you in a certain direction: Either further academia and lecturing, or very specific industries. I’d say that’s quite a neutral statement.
Whatever reason you took it for – I’m sure by how well you did you enjoyed it. And that’s all that matters. I do wish you the best of luck.
@Fliss
I’m gobsmacked. The Bachelor and Master of Law (LLB / LLM) are an EXCEPTIONAL grounding in all manner of academic and practical matters. Debate, verbal and written reasoning, negotiation, presentation skills, research, and a generally good “jack of all trades” approach to a vast number of laws which affect all areas of life. It would set people up for most careers, legal or not.
Whoever said that to you must be a troll or an idiot.
The main thing with the countryside – or even smaller urban areas (including some small cities) for that matter – is that even if you get a job, then unless it’s very well paid a hell of a lot of your wages will go either on train/bus fares or on petrol and other car-related costs. And it all depends on where you happen to find work in relation to where you are living, and many people have little control over either.
If you’re paying rent as well then you could easily be approaching similar outgoings to a Londoner in some rural areas (percentage-wise) – like 80-90% of wages – just to rent a room – a ROOM, not a house – (or pay your parents board) and get to work.
I heard a story (on the Guardian comments page I think) of a guy living in the country whose car had broken down, and was told to walk/cycle 7 miles each way to his nearest Job Centre (there was only one bus a week), so not sure how accomodating rural Job Centres are on interview expenses based on that.
I dread to think how my brother spends commuting an hour by car each day to Brighton compared to earnings. In Birmingham I pay £54 a month on a bus pass covering an area something like 15 miles or so across – so work at minimum wage (for over 21s) up to £7 an hour (c £900-£1000/month) is bearable.
In Hampshire where I grew up it’s £200+ a month on the train to the nearest city (20 miles) and £350+ a month to London I think. Adding say £300-£400 a month to rent a room, and that £900-£1000 a month isn’t going to get you far…
Hi Nik,
Your response came across as a little defensive, which is a shame. No one was looking down on your for taking Medieval Studies, they were simply asking why you’d chosen to take it, which is a fair question bearing in mind it’s a such a specialised choice for further study given that you haven’t mentioned wanting to take this interest further in a professional capacity. I don’t think it’s quite fair to broaden this question into a perceived slight against Humanities degrees in general. Plenty of us have Humanities degrees (myself included) and there’s certainly nothing wrong with taking them. You do need to be prepared, though, that people – including employers – will have the same questions raised here in the comments if you have taken a specialised MA that is not related to a job you are applying for.
I think what a lot of people – particularly grads – tend to forget when applying for jobs is that employers need something to. It’s not a one-way street. They are looking for someone they are sure will commit, and that they can invest it. Specialised degrees (BA or MA) in a different field are not dealbreakers, but they are red flags.
I live on the outskirts of Guildford, Surrey. I cannot work in London, for a long time, unless the pay is good. In London, I could work as a Maths tutor, undertake Maths tutoring, undertake market research, telemarketing etc. There seems to be less casual work work, less temporary work, even in London, but outside London, the problem is worse. Transport costs are 120 pounds a week +. I have dyspraxia, as well.
Hi Nik, it’s still early days to get too down. Your future lies along another path to mundane admin work. However, you will have to suffer the indignity of low-paid work and even voluntary work for a while. Something which you probably deep down know is that you will have to relocate possibly two more times before you can begin your career. Your career progress will also probably involve relocating several times. First you must decide whether you want to follow your original career path or whether you should take another direction. Then you must go onto a training programme before taking up your first post. There’s no guarantees in this life, but continue to follow your dreams.
All the best, Nik
Is it harder to secure a decent graduate job when you don’t live in or near a big city?
In my view I believe that it’s not the case of where you live that makes it any easier or harder to secure employment, but the motivation to achieve your goal regardless of the effort that that requires.
I graduated many years ago and got my first job in central London, however I lived out in rural Berkshire. My daily commute from home to office was anything between 1.5 – 2 hours each way. Although this wasn’t an ideal situation, it was tiring, had a huge impact on any spare/leisure time I had and was extremely expensive, I just knew I had to do to it to gain experience in the sector I wanted my career to head.
From the tone of Nik’s writing I’d say he has lost his motivation and enthusiasm a little, which is understandable given his current situation, but to succeed he must pull his socks up and get on with it. Comments such as “Proper graduate level entry jobs appear to be non-existent…”, and “the kind of firms that offer internships seem to be limited to London, Manchester and other big cities…” simply aren’t true.
I suspect that given Nik “had high hopes of securing a place on a glamorous graduate scheme or the civil service…” he is feeling frustrated that this is not the reality, but he shouldn’t give up hope.
Nik if you are reading this please note that I write not to knock you when you’re already low, but to encourage you to revisit your goals, forget what has happened so far, and find the motivation you need to surge forward. If I was able to detect your flat tone (assuming I’m right, which I may not be), from your writing imagine how an employer or recruiter perceives you when they meet you/talk to you?
I run a graduate career coaching and training company and if Tanya was happy to pass contact details I’d gladly offer you a free consultation to help you regain your focus.
Good luck Nik, keep believing, it WILL happen!
I’m about to graduate with a 2:1 LLB from a decent university, looking for jobs is a daunting process, but what I will say is that a BA in English and an MA in Medieval Studies just ticks me off, even listening to somebody say “Medieval Studies” with a straight face ticks me off. I mean come off it..how is that relevant to any of the jobs you seem to want to do? Do you think the civil service wants experts on Henry the 8th?
pretty interesting to read the comment about your location not really mattering.
I live in very rural North Devon, more people regularly attend Manchester United home games then live in my town!
I’ve had interviews in big cities such as London, Bristol and Manchester and have been told that due to the area I live in that they wont offer my a job due to needing to move. this is also the situation many of my friends have as well.
One employer even told me that they wont consider me due to the “change of lifestyle from living in the west country to that of a big city” I’m from Devon not the moon!
I graduated with a Degree in Media Production last year and have recently done a level two certificate in Sale and marketing which is the area that I want to work within. I have also been pro active and found work experience when ever I can take it.
Its even harder to find any job currently within my area let alone find a graduate job!
with regard to Nik good luck, you’re not alone! so what about you’re MA, I’m starting a part time MA next year in Music Journalism, sometimes you have to do things for the enjoyment of it and not care what employers of others think!
@Bill Oreilly
Your law degree is probably more irrelevant than medieval studies. The market is saturated with people with law degrees. You are dime a dozen.