EXPERT WARNS OF VAST “OVERSUPPLY” OF YOUNG HOPEFULS
Pursuing a career in the legal profession – once considered one of the most stable and lucrative options for graduates – is an increasingly risky option for young people, and industry expert has warned. New figures show that up to 3,000 law graduates are emerging from UK universities each year with no hope of landing a training contract.
Des Hudson, chief executive of the Law Society, says warned that thousands of law graduates will never secure a job in the legal industry – although they will be burdened with thousands of pounds of debt they accrued in order to gain their qualifications. He said that law graduates don’t understand the risks of trying to become a solicitor and are spending huge amounts on law courses that won’t get them a job. Speaking to the Sunday Times, he said:
“We think there is an oversupply of graduates and we think that inadequate information is being provided to parents and students.
“We estimate 2,000-3,000 people a year are emerging from those courses with no immediate prospect of a training contract with a law firm and becoming a solicitor. We believe some people who are being sold these courses have no reasonable prospects of being hired to become a solicitor.”
Graduate Beth Williams, who has a degree from Cardiff University and has completed a one-year £6,000 law conversion course, has been rejected from 10 law firms so far. One person on her law conversion course has got a job. She said some law firms are even going so far as to make graduates apply to attend their open days:
“We had to fill in an online application for the open day of one Bristol law firm recently and it was like a job application. Three of us got turned down.”
In June last year, Graduate Fog reported that too many law graduates had led to a decline in job vacancies, according to a leading barrister. Michael Todd QC, chairman of the Bar Council had accused law schools of letting down thousands of young people who were doing law courses when there was little hope of them finding a job. He said:
“Too many students are emerging from law schools with £50,000-£60,000 of debt and no realistic prospect of pupillage. Law schools which are not giving those students an accurate picture of their chances are letting them down.”
Graduate Fog is not an expert in the legal education sector – but something seems to be going drastically wrong here, if such large numbers of young people are signing up for courses which fail to help them gain access to the careers they want. A similar catastrophe has been happening in media for years – with far too many young people with media-related degrees graduating, for the small number of jobs available. Is the same thing now happening in law?
*CAN’T GET YOUR LEGAL CAREER STARTED?
How much have you shelled out for your qualifications – and what were your hopes for your career? What work have you managed to find – and what were your experiences of applying? Share your story in the Comments below.
“Is the same thing now happening in law?”
Simply, yes.
Thought I may have dodged a bullet with that Law degree I started when I was 18. Not sure if I see any way the LPC would have been affordable, for instance – and an LPC hardly magically makes you a solicitor if you need to work for actual money (i.e. rather than unpaid) – especially these days. I know 2 people from my old job with LPCs who were stuck in data-entry like me – even though one of them had done pro bono Death Row work in America.
Ultimately left the Law degree after 3 months, did two “accidental” gap years working in retail, then studied Politics with International Relations instead – not saying the job prospects are really better, but at least I was more interested in the degree (and lived abroad for a year), and no official requirement (as opposed to unofficial or de facto) to spend thousands on further qualifications like there is in Law.
I’ve even seen legal secretary adverts that explicitly say “no Law graduates” recently.
It is about supply and demand as there is more graduates and law jobs of course this is going to happen that about half wont get jobs, with govertment cutting back even further there will be more graduates who have studied law and unemployed, study a something that another country wants and leave
@Alex W. I’ve noticed recently that a lot of employers are specifically asking for ‘no graduates/degrees’. I would like to know why employers/society in general have suddenly turned on graduates. It’s like we’ve committed a crime by opting for university or something. I think the western media has a lot to answer for, as they’ve literally been on a graduate witch-hunt, thus making employers all jump on the band wagon. Something is wrong, clearly. We’d all be better off moving to a developing country that actually needs our skills, and to hell with the UK, and the rest of the west, who thinks it’s acceptable to tell young people that they must go to university to be employed/have any chance, yet turn their backs on us once we’ve gone through the system. I’ve been reassessing my situation, and since I’ve saved up a little, I’m going to qualify/re-train in a trade or health occupation, and f*ck off out this country. It’s going down anyway.
Becks- that’s terrible. I haven’t seen any ads myself which have specified ‘no graduates/degrees’, but surely it’s discrimination if that’s what they’re doing?!
@ Beck.
No one said you’d committed a crime by gaining a degree. That’s a massive supposition on your part.
Employers are allowed to recruit on the basis of business need, and if they need someone who hasn’t been to uni and perhaps has a more practical (rather than theoretical) understanding of their world and may even have some experience then they are allowed to.
You are allowed to recruit on the basis of experience and skills alone. Academic qualifications are just that, academic qualifications, they don’t mean you have “qualified” to do a particular job.
Alex
“I’ve even seen legal secretary adverts that explicitly say “no Law graduates” recently.”
Why? Well because desperate graduates will take any job just to get a foot in the door of a law practice. Then they leave once they have that or else they become disillusioned with the secretary’s job.
Please see it from the employer’s p.o.v. they don’t want people who have expectations beyond the level of the job.
Peter, it’s not reasonable to expect law graduates to be all right with what’s happening. Would you be? If indeed employers are assuming that graduates don’t have enough practical experience, then that is discrimination. They can hire who they want but preventing certain people from even applying when they’ve worked to obtain qualifications in exactly the right field is ridiculous.
If indeed employers are assuming that graduates don’t have enough practical experience, then that is discrimination.
Such inflammatory language. Every candidate who doesn’t get a job is discriminated against – that’s the basis of recruitment. What you fail to understand is that its legal.
Such an unpleasant tone! Oh well – I’d advise you to look up the word “discrimination” in the dictionary when you’re done being snarky.
@ Sarah,
In term of employment law discrimination legally refer to age, race,gender, sexual orientation, disability, religion and caring responsibilities. Not qualifications
@All –
Can anyone send me links to a few examples of adverts that specify that graduates should not apply? Thanks! I agree it’s not discrimination in the legal sense but it’s a significant trend to report nonetheless – I’d love to write a story about it. Thanks again
I didn’t say it was legal/illegal discrimination but it’s certainly discrimination in the literal sense of the word if it is happening!
If I’m recruiting a legal secretary I don’t want people who have Law Degrees and are looking to become lawyers.
I want someone with legal secretary qualifications and or/ legal secretary experience. Its a completely different job involving admin.
If I’m looking for a barrista (not a barrister) I am allowed to ask for apprentices and those with practical skills above and beyond any graduates with limited practical skills but a degree in Coffee.
. Just because you have a degree it doesn’t open doors to every job available – and it never did!
The sense of entitlement on this thread is overwhelming
@ Sarah
I didn’t say it was legal/illegal discrimination but it’s certainly discrimination in the literal sense of the word if it is happening!
All recruitment is discriminatory, some people see the job advert some dont, some apply some dont, some get shortlisted some dont, some get interviewed some dont, some get offered jobs some dont.
Your allegation of discrimination is therefore somewhat redundant and meaningless in the context that you yourself are placing it.
@Tanya: I’m sure I’ve seen an advert that more-or-less said graduates shouldn’t apply (it used slightly different wording, but I think that’s what they meant). Unfortunately it’s got lost in the mists of time. If I find it again I’ll let you know.
Peter: Seriously. A dictionary. It really wouldn’t take long.
@ Sarah,
I’ll be plainer. As with ALL jobs, some people aren’t successful – that’s discriminatory. – Is that really your argument? Its not just vacuous, its nonsense.
I lost any sort of expectation of doing something with my law degree a long time ago! Mainly due to working full time in random temp jobs to pay rent post university and during, meaning I had to abandon any sort of volunteer experience early on that would even lead me to basic legal roles like a paralegal, which most people on my course have ended up doing seeing as many people can’t actually afford an LPC and Universities don’t give any sort of advice in helping you find funding for one… And even now, when I do go back on the job hunt and have another look at legal jobs and seeing if maybe I could have a chance, I now see a lot of paralegal jobs are wanting those with an LPC or even a BVC, just showing how much competition there is out there. Law will simply soon become another one of those careers laid out for the rich…
I think graduates need to assess their career ambitions by looking at the job market. Those graduating in law are warned that they face the toughest competion. A law degree means you know about the law but not the practical side. I used to work in citizens advice bureau where I saw many people without legal quilifications who knew how the law applied. The LLB focuses too much on how the law works but less on the application. However, on the plus side a law degree is quite flexible if you want to go into other proffessions.
I HATE MY LIFE… DO NOT STUDY LAW UNLESS YOUR DAD OWNS A LAW FIRM.. WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY. IT MESSES UP YOUR HEAD. STAY AWAY FROM THE LAW. IT IS NOT A MICKY MOUSE DEGREE BUT TURNS YOU INTO MICKY MOUSE.
It is very strange to hear this. A close friend suffered a £9,000 fraud at the hands of a rogue car dealer. Not a single law firm wanted to discuss this small case. Maybe there needs to be some flexibility to allow graduates to gain valuable experience working these sorts of cases, rather than leaving it to completely inexperienced members of the public in the small claims court. There is a clear gap in the provision of cost effective legal advice,which these able graduates (and even students) could help fill. There’s a need and there’s lots of talent. How do we connect them?
This message is for any doe eyed teenager considering a law degree:
DO NOT under any circumstance study Law especially in the UK! Unless your parents are partners in a law firm or can afford to ‘buy’ you a training contract or pupillage with one of their golf buddies.
It is absolutely ridiculous that Universities in UK do not warn students about the reality of lack of legal jobs upon graduating – I suppose they do not care once they receive the tuition fees.
I studied hard, was very involved at University; I was Careers Officer for the Law Society (I know, the irony is laughable) and had numerous work experience in law firms and the court system while I also maintained a part time job. However upon graduating, I could not get a legal job as I was either overqualified (e.g. law degree not required for legal secretarial jobs) or underqualified (apparently firms can now afford to turn down law graduates for paralegal jobs in favour of those desperate people who have completed their LPCs but can not get training contracts or better jobs). I have been told my CV is impressive but there is always a candidate with an LPC and they will be hired instead. I have been told to do an LPC then get back in touch.
So I am expected to spend almost £15,000 for an LPC just to get a job as a paralegal?! I am not in any sense looking down on paralegal jobs; I just find it shocking that before I started my degree, one did not need a degree to become a paralegal and now, a degree will not even get you the job. That is the state of our economy ladies and gentlemen. There are too many law graduates and LPC holders that law firms scarcely hand out training contracts and can still afford to be picky about who they hire.
My advice for teenagers out there:
study something where support from the government is guaranteed. Study a course like teaching or nursing.. believe me, I wish I could go back and do it all again. I would study a course where the University sorts out my placement and upon graduating I get a job with the NHS or the school system. Law graduates have NO SUPPORT whatsoever!
For those who believe they are passionate about law, passion alone is not enough to sustain you..eventually that passion turns to anger and bitterness.
@Hindsight is a….
employment is all about supply and demand, there is too many law graduates coming out of uni’s so law firms can be very picky of who they take for jobs such as paralegals.
it is the same in IT, the section I work in, why pay for British graduates, when you can get Indians graduates who will work for less.
same in the building industry, why hire a britsh builder on £10.00 an hour when you can get an eastern European for £7.00 an hour.
there is no difference which every industry you go into
@matthew
True.
Almost everyone I know is in the same boat, whether they be law/English/design graduates and non-graduates. I wouldn’t even limit it to people in this country. No one is safe and there is intense competition for any level of work. The problem is much larger and partly to do with the economy.
I was unemployed for a long time, mainly doing odd-jobs and such like. Now that I have a job I feel no better since it is only temporary and doesn’t pay enough to lead an independent life. I know that at the end I will still be with the parents with no stable career and little money.
The only thing I have managed even with the LPC is temporary jobs. Honestly, being a paralegal can be soul-destroying after a while, especially in major city firms where they squeeze you dry. I’ve looked at it from the inside and being a solicitor isn’t worth having a nervous breakdown over. The reward can be decent, but what they take from you is worth more imho. I suppose that comes across as jaded, probably as a result of spending years applying for jobs.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Higher education feels like this decades missold PPI. The £££ I spent chasing a piece of paper seems crazy now. But I wasn’t the only one. Thousands bought into the lie as well. What mugs we were!
I am surprised paralegal work has not been onshored to cheaper locations in the UK than London or off-shored altogether yet….only a matter of time…
@Matthew
I am aware there are too many law graduates; I made that point in my initial comment. It is just a shame that I didn’t realise it sooner, but I guess everyone feels that way. That said, I was not aware that graduates in other sectors were finding it just as difficult. Now that is just depressing
@Grad
That is exactly how I feel. The time and money spent chasing what now seems like a worthless degree makes me feel like a complete mug.
@Nicolas
Haha I honestly will not be surpised if that happens! Everything else has already been offshored..
@hindsight please don’t be too hard on yourself, you should not have a defeatist attitude but instead be proud of yourself and your achievements which demonstrates you are ambitious, passionate and driven to make something of yourself. I hope you get some good luck soon and stay positive.
@Tabitha
I agree. I’ve never regretted higher education despite the fact that I and many others haven’t been successful with careers. I looked at it as a chance to improve myself first and foremost. The career is just something I hoped I could secure and I never felt ‘entitled’ to it as such. Of course it is disappointing when you are unsuccessful, but I have come to see that it is not the end of the world. What we need most is a decent economy and people who will be good at representing our interests in a democracy.
Here in the US, looking at jobs online, many low paying positions such as $12/hr ask for a bachelor’s degree or minimum years of exp. Or both. Its impossible to get that exp. when everyone is asking for it. I was mislead in every career I attempted as to what it required and the outlook and in one of them how much more education was required. Id love to see a job listing stating no degrees!
And I was just considering starting Access to law course next September that will cost me £3000.Because I thought a law degree will set me for life.After reading this article I think I’ll find something else that guarantees work at the end
I raised these same concerns about the lack of training contacts in the early 1990s but law degrees and lpc and authorisation etc that goes with it are a huge money maker for certain institutions the problem is not new but it’s just that less people are afraid to talk about the truth of it now pity that all those graduates who couldn’t get in to the profession have their life’s wrecked already while those in authority turned a blind eye
Hi V. Interesting comments all round but I would like to take up the point you made. I turned down the chance to study for a law degree at Middlesex in 1988 at the expense of a business degree. I often wonder what if?
I did later apply to do a CPE course and sent many speculative cv applications for a training contract in the mid 1990s, but to no avail. I went into education instead.
Even now though I still wonder what if? However by the sounds of it, it does appear that unless you went to a top 10 university or have connections, a career in the law is rather limited.
I sometimes think ‘If only I’d taken a proper degree’. The legal jobs market is an antidote to such thinking.
There is an oversupply of LPC students. There is an oversupply of BTPC students. You are not just competing against LLB students but those who have taken a GDL conversion course. It is increasingly common for law graduates to end up in paralegal positions rather than training contracts. And of course a training contract isn’t itself a guarantee of a job afterwards anyway.
Sure there are no guarantees in life but it seems too risky to me.
Stop moaning you sad cretins
Peter is stuck in a world of confusion. Words have particular meanings and you have to stick to them, else how can we all communicate if we are all speaking vastly different languages?
On topic; I have often wondered but never seen it covered- what do all the unsuccessful law graduates do? Those who spend tens of thousands on passing the bar for instance and then can never get pupillage? There must be a lot of them
There is an oversupply in law in most of the oecd countries. Jobless law graduates shouldn’t lose all hopes.Legal costs are such that there will be sooner rather than later incentives for those jobless graduates to represent people for one tenth of wthat law firms are charging.
Hi all
Thought you might like to know we’ve just published a super-useful new article: How to get a graduate job at Allen & Overy
Here is the link: http://bit.ly/2aehCo4
(And yes, someone from A&O actually talks you through what they’re looking for!)
I recently got asked in an interview for a paralegal position why I did a mini-pupilage if I’m doing the LPC. My answer was well at 19 years old I didn’t have my whole life planned out and that I would have been very stupid to turn down an opportunity at that point. I’m 25, have work experience and have worked as a legal advisor and am still experience no luck in getting a paralegal job, which you DO NOT even have to have a law degree for. The whole system is a joke and they can’t be bothered with young people.