GRADUATE FOG IS ASKED TO ADVERTISE VACANCY PAYING JUST £12,300
**Click here to find out how to find a graduate job in a recession**
Are unpaid internships dragging down graduate starting salaries? Are tight-fisted employers using the over-supply of graduates as an excuse to pay you less than they paid last year’s university leavers?
Yes and yes, says new research by Incomes Data Services, whose report Pay and progression for graduates 2011 predicts that graduates entering the workforce this summer will find themselves worse off than their predecessors as starting salary rates for graduates lag further behind inflation.
In other words, when you factor in the rising cost of living, graduate salaries are actually falling in real terms.
Jessica Evans, senior researcher on the IDS study, said:
“With employers maintaining a guarded approach to setting starting salaries in 2011, there seems to be no let-up in the squeeze on graduate pay packets as employers continue to keep a lid on costs.
“Even though the demand for graduate recruits is showing some signs of revival, the competition for places means that employers are under little pressure to increase current rates, despite high inflation.”
Evans is too polite to say it, but she means that employers are screwing over graduates – for the simple reason that they can.
If you’re interested in the numbers, the report shows that the average starting salary for graduates increased by just 1% to £25,166 in 2010, while the retail price index (RPI – a measure of inflation) has not dipped below 3.7% all year. According to IDS, starting salaries are projected to rise only by another measly 1% this year, to reach an average of £26,045. When the latest figures show inflation at 5.5% (February 2011), this will have a big impact on the amount of cash graduates have in their wallets. And, don’t forget, those are just the lucky ones who actually find a paid job.
This downward trend certainly fits with my experience.
I kept quiet about it at the time but back in February I was approached by a company wanting to advertise a marketing analyst role on the Graduate Fog Job Board. The (detailed) job description sounded promising, until I saw the salary. The recruiter had written:
We are pleased to offer a starting salary of £12,334.40 for this entry-level position.
This was for a graduate job, based in London. I remember when I started in journalism in 2002 and the editorial assistants were paid £12,500 – and that was considered shamefully terrible ten years ago! And now this seemingly reputable company was announcing they are ‘pleased’ – ie proud – to offer this pitiful amount, nearly 10 years later?
I wrestled with whether to put this on the job board – one of you guys might love this opportunity, right? And it’s not less than the NMW – but I decided against it. For one thing, the idea that this employer was very happy to pay me my full fee whilst offering their graduate employee such a low salary made me feel a bit queasy. So I wrote back:
Thank you for sending details of your Marketing Analyst role. Unfortunately, although the job sounds like a great opportunity, I’m afraid I’m not going to be able to run the ad. This is simply because of the salary offered.
Of course, it is entirely up to you what you pay your staff (as long as it’s more than the NMW), but as Graduate Fog is all about battling for a fairer deal for graduates (most of whom are in enormous debt) I feel that running an ad for such a low-paying role for a graduate would undermine the trust that my users have in me for fighting their corner.
I assume it is unlikely that you are willing to consider upping the salary for this role, but I would be happy to run the ad if you were paying £16,000+. If you have other roles in the future that are in line with this salary level, please do get in touch.
Many apologies for this – I’m sorry I didn’t make it clear earlier that salary is an important factor here. To be honest I didn’t realise until now that it was – and will now change my info pack accordingly.
I hope you find an excellent candidate for this role and that you understand my reasons for being unable to run the ad on Graduate Fog.
With thanks,
Tanya
Needless to say, I never heard back.
Are unpaid internships to blame for this salary slump? I think so, at least in part. So far on this website, we have focussed on the social consequences of this corrosive practice – but I suspect we are about to feel their economic impact too.
Think about it. Through desperation and a lack of awareness about their rights and their employers’ legal responsibilities, too many graduates are now prepared to start their working life being paid nothing at all, as unpaid interns. Fast forward six months and they are thrilled when their employer offers them a salary equivalent to the National Minimum Wage (even though this wage was originally brought in to protect the lowest skilled workers in our society – it was never imagined it would be offered for graduate jobs).
Then factor in the dire state of the economy – and how tight-fisted bosses are right now – and how hard it is for any of us (at any stage in our career) to negotiate a pay rise in this climate. Even if you start your working life on £16,000 (far above the NMW), it will take a long time to push it up to the IDS’s calculated average of around £25,000.
And that’s another thing – how many of your friends are earning anywhere near £25,000?
I believe that this ‘average’ figure is hugely misleading. When you look at the small print it’s clear why it’s so high – because it actually factors in those graduates who enter high-paying fields like law and accountancy, who skew the numbers significantly (their average starting salary is a whopping £30,700). I suspect the median starting salary would reflect a much more accurate picture of the way thing really are.
There was a glimmer of hope, however. Across the entire workforce, IDS found that graduate recruitment actually leapt 16% in 2010, led by the private sector ramping up its recruitment of graduates as the economy emerged from recession. But Evans warned that this good news should be seen in context:
“After a difficult recession, companies once again turned their minds to expansion in 2010. However, economic uncertainty still lingers and we expect to see a considerably more muted intake of graduates throughout the workforce in 2011.”
And graduates considering careers in the public sector should be particularly careful about the decisions they make, said Evans:
“Putting graduate programs on hold is an obvious way to reduce costs, and with the public sector slashing costs in order to plug the black hole in the public finances, graduate recruitment is likely to be low on the list of priorities at public sector organisations.”
The researchers also warned that the number of applicants for every graduate vacancy could increase in 2011, as a backlog of graduates from the Class of 2010 have a second attempt at gaining employment in their preferred areas.
So once again, I fear the official statistics are about to prove what the Graduate Fog community already knows…
PS. Sorry this blog post is so gloomy – but Graduate Fog’s users say again and again that you love this site because we tell it like it is! But I before you freak out completely, click here to find out how to find a job in a recession
*Are employers shafting graduates on salary?
What graduate salary do you expect – and what would you accept? Among your friends, what is the average graduate starting salary? Do you agree that in the downturn employers are taking advantage of young people, squeezing you financially through unpaid internships and rock-bottom starting salaries? How does this make you feel? And did I do the right thing telling the employer offering a graduate salary of £12,300 to piss off?
Graduate salaries are terrible. My role is not classed as a graduate role but you need a degree to be able to apply… The salary is 17k which is pitiful. However, there are others who were on 15k doing the same job. Now, they have just been offered a pay rise to 18k as long as they kept it quiet… but we are all good friends and shared the info, now i am the one on 1k less than my colleagues doing the exact same job with the similar experience. It is a joke that the national average is 25k as I know from most of my friends (with a few exceptions) that this is not the case!
Of the people I know who have been fortunate enoguh to get onto graduate schemes recently their salaries have been such:
36k – IBM
36k – BP
28k – Apple
26k – Aston Martin
These figures can make it sort of understandable how the average has come about. Personally, I started my role on minimum wage but had my income increased to 16k as my boss was afraid he was going to lose me…all due to an interview for a job I didn’t have an interest in. Its still not quite there but its a step in the right direction! Of course I have to keep this a secret from the 3 other grads in my team…
A friend of mine works in a tech startup in what I understand is a glorified admin role with a bit of social media know-how thrown in. He’s on 25k. He can rock up to work at 10am and is allowed to work from home. It seems that some industries aren’t as tight-fisted as others.
I myself am working in a v small agency but am on a decent salary (at least compared to the standard here) – less than 25k though. It seems that smaller agencies are nicer to newbies, and big companies with more money to burn don’t seem to care….?
@All
For my first job after uni (in 2000) I worked as an office manager for small recruitment firm. I was hired with no experience (apart from a summer de-stapling (!) for Office Angels). My salary? 20k. Would a grad with no experience get that salary now?
Yes they certainly are dropping. When I worked in retail in London part-time when I was 16 the full time staff were getting around 17k.
So that’s what I could have earned if I went full time and didn’t do A-Levels or get a degree. And if I hadn’t built up additional skills and experience elsewhere.
When I graduated in 2009 my friend got an office manager job for 17k for which she frequently worked 10 or 11 hr days. At the time I thought that salary was an insult.
The Challenge Network, a social enterprise running the national citizen service, only pays its young staff 12k per year but I know them to be exceptionally bright and skilled people. Perhaps it was able to deliver such a cheap tender for the national citizen service because it doesn’t pay its young staff a living London wage. (Many grads wouldn’t be able to afford to work there).
Now I see 12k advertised frequently: as if they are a prize!
Another problem is that if you start at 12k how can you go up from there? You’re unlikely to be given 23k at next pay rise
As and when the economy does turn, RESEARCH into the salary ranges paid by similar size employers in similar sectors can help you claw back lost ground. It’s easiest to negotiate a better deal if you’re going for a new job but (as Jo said) it’s also possible to persuade, frighten or shame your current employer into paying more.
You find out the salary ranges and typical salaries (median salary)through bodies like Incomes Data Services which produce salary surveys – suggest you google for salary surveys [your job title] and see what comes up – and via job ads, recruitment consultancies and networking.
Document your results. Be ready to show the recruiter and / or your boss the information that shows the market rate for someone with your skills and experience.
I’ve first hand experience of doing this and it gained me a 7% increase in the pay the interviewer first offered (he said he wasn’t going to engage in a Dutch auction with me so what did I think I was worth!).
It is interesting that you write in regards to the IDS report that ‘it actually factors in those graduates who enter high-paying fields like law and accountancy’. Should it not? Are they not graduates, too?
The vast majority of my friends who graduated in 2009 started on at least a £30k salary, in both permanent positions and on graduate programmes, respectively.
I should imagine that the wide range of graduate starting salaries today (£15k-30k+) simply reflects the wide range of quality of graduates today. Ten years ago, university graduates were educated to a reliably high standard, which is no longer the case. The best universities continue to produce the quality of graduates that can command good starting salaries; but, as a consequence of the last government forcing universities to accept hugely increased numbers of school-leavers (many of whom were not suitable for higher education), there is now a large disparity in the level of skills and knowledge possessed by graduates.
If companies are interviewing graduates whose levels of literacy and numeracy are barely above that of unskilled school-leavers, can they really be expected to offer them anything more than the minimum wage?
In an ideal world all graduates would earn 30K plus and everybody would be happy. But the reality is there is an oversupply of graduates, so as any sensible business person would do they pay the market rate.
Although 12.5K isn’t a particularly generous starting wage, it is better than internships which pay nothing.
We should be looking at the oversupply and devaluation of graduate degrees, which is the fault of the government and universities and not the fault of business.
More graduates = lower salaries
Simples.
I can’t remember where I read this, perhaps someone could link me to the original article, but in 2004 the government estimated that graduates would earn £400,000 more than none graduates over their lifetimes. By 2009 in was £100,000. By 2011 who knows? and who is counting?
Year on year degrees are worth less and yet the price is increasing. I am currently doing a degree, but if I was younger I would seriously consider not going to uni and going straight into the jobs market and getting some experience.
@James – David Willetts is forever trotting out that 100,000 figure – but it’s my understanding that it’s a) based on very old data , which doesn’t take into account the explosion in the number of grads and b) it wasn’t considered very ‘good’ data even at the time! So for this essentially rather dodgy stat to form the cornerstone of the govt’s argument for continuing to usher hundreds of thousands of young people into uni every year (and charging them up to £80k for the privilege) is IMO pretty terrifying!
@LF, you’re quite right, of course these grads should be included in the figures. My point (perhaps not brilliantly made!) was that these grads’ starting are not typical of most graduates, and the (i believe) huge difference between their salaries and everybody else’s is going to give the impression that the ‘average’ grad is earning more than they actually are. The median (ie middle ranking) salary would be a better indicator, I think.
This is an interesting idea – do you have evidence to support it?
…Hm, not sure about this – maybe on the big graduate schemes, but certainly not in politics or journalism, where they’ll have to start on zero, like everybody else!
@Joddle
I agree 100%! Most employers make you get down on your knees just to get a pay rise that’s anywhere near matching inflation…
@RedHeadFashionista
Glad you’re being paid a proper wage at last – but don’t forget (as if you would!) that you were interning unpaid for months, were you not? So, strictly speaking your first job was paid zero, and from then you had the misfortune of working for ‘controversial’ recruitment company Inspiring Interns, who paid you what, per month? But you’re right, the bigger companies can sometimes be the worst at coughing up the wages their junior employees deserve – see Harrods, Urban Outfitters, etc:
Harrods too tight to pay their interns
Urban Outfitters recruits NINE MONTH unpaid intern
@RedHeadFashionista
Yes, tech seems to be one of the few industries that offers generous salaries – my understanding is there is a big war for talent going on there, which other industries (journalism etc) aren’t experiencing… When choosing what industry you go into, i always say it’s worth picking on that is expanding/booming, rather than one that is shrinking/dying.. I WISH someone had told me this when I graduated! But none of you guys want to listen to me! : (
@Jo
Thanks for those stats – really interesting. I’m AMAZED that IBM offer 36k – wow… I wonder what grads starting out in PR, journalism, fashion, politics etc would make of that..?? Do those on the IBM scheme work any harder? Again, it seems that choosing an industry / company that is thriving, booming, growing is the way forward if you ever want to make any real money…!
@Jamie
Why do you think the salary is so low? And was it always this bad, do you know?
@Tanya de Grunwald
@LF
Hmm.. Well it’s widely accepted that employers love to bitch about how rubbish graduates are, without being prepared to put any money or time into training them to do the job properly! I’m not sure it’s true that grads are generally just worse now than they were 10 years ago. When I left uni in 2000 I had no experience and landed a job earning £20k no problem. And no, it wasn’t with a big firm.
You are not alone in having this view – unfortunately all the grads who can’t afford to work for free find that they are excluded from these opportunities. I don’t blame those who take these unpaid internships – or their supposedly ‘sharp-elbowed’ parents, who are only doing what they can. But even if you don’t believe that you were exploited while doing these unpaid internships, if you were doing real, valuable work then it’s my belief that you were. Sorry.
I’ve written about this before but i find it genuinely chilling that so many young people are now prepared to accept ‘experience’ in lieu of financial payment for their work, which I think is a gross distortion of the old idea of ‘a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work’. I’m also concerned that a whole generation of young people is accepting this distorted view of the employer-employee relationship as the norm… Would you agree that this is what’s happening? I suspect you don’t see it like that?
By the way, all views are welcome on Graduate Fog – I’m genuinely interested in the different schools of thought on this issue.
@Tanya de Grunwald
I don’t believe that anybody is excluded from such opportunities. Generally, the costs involved are fairly low – my first internship was during a summer break from university and the costs incurred for the duration were no higher than my usual costs whilst studying. Secondly, as with any (sound) investment, one can borrow money to fund it.
I certainly agree with the idea of ‘a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work’. However, internships worth having are those which stretch and challenge, which by default means putting the intern in a position of responsibility. As a student, the intern is not qualified (by virtue of having no/little experience and no degrees) to hold such a position and therefore to be paid for it. Now that I am qualified and have the relevant experience under my belt, I certainly expect to be suitably paid for my work; students however have no natural right to be paid for work for which they are not qualified, even if it is value-adding.
I am most glad to hear of your tolerance of all views 🙂
@LF
Again, interesting views. The NMW law seems to agree with you – undergrads doing internships as part of their course do not have to be paid for their work. I agree that this is a grey area (is the employer really getting much value from them?). But I don’t agree that just because someone doesn’t have any experience or a qualification, they necessarily don’t deserve to be paid for their labour. If their work has value to an employer, I believe they should be paid for it. I believe this should apply whether they haven’t been to uni (apprentices – currently paid a pitiful amount of around £2.50 ph i think?), whether they are a student (doing a placement as part of their course) or are a graduate (trying to get experience so they will be considered for their first permanent graduate job.
What does everyone else think? I know some will have strong views that oppose @LF, but let’s play nicely (!) It’s more useful to try and understand someone else’s views than just to try and shout them down… No?
I should be most interested to hear further opposing views.
I think that your argument (‘If their work has value to an employer, I believe they should be paid for it’) makes sense, in economic theory. Sadly, that does not translate very well in reality (as with most economic theory). My neighbour clears the road when it snows, which is of great value to me. However, I don’t pay him for it.
LF sorry but your attitude is pompus. You suggest that employers are offering their employees just 12k because they are crap and can’t read and write. Have you considered they may CHOOSE to pay 12k or NOTHING because they can.
LF sorry but your attitude is pompous. You suggest that employers are offering their employees just 12k because they are crap and can’t read and write. Have you considered they may CHOOSE to pay 12k or NOTHING because they can.
@joddle
‘LF sorry but your attitude is pompous’
Are you really sorry about your opinion? I fear not…
‘Have you considered they may CHOOSE to pay 12k or NOTHING because they can.’
Yes, this is called ‘capitalism’.
@LF
I agree that these rock-bottom salaries are the result of ‘market forces’ to certain extent (too many grads, not enough grad jobs) but I believe they are also the result of unpaid internships, which are illegal in this country (anybody who meets the criteria of being a ‘worker’ must be paid at least the NMW – this law is simply not being enforced for interns).
A recent survey said that in the last 30 years, the NMW law was the societal change that MPs are most proud of. Although bringing this in was controversial at the time (people said employers wouldn’t hire people if they had to pay them this wage, and it was against the idea of the ‘free market’ – ring any bells?!), today it is difficult to find anybody who disagrees that we should have the NMW. In fact, there is now a significant campaign for the ‘London living wage’ – over £7 – for as it is felt that in London even the NMW is not enough to live on (unless you’re claiming other benefits).
So my point is that what we’re seeing here is not just the result of capitalism – it’s also the result of so many businesses being allowed to continue to break the NMW laws and exploit young workers in the form of unpaid internships. Personally, I have no problem with capitalism. But i do have a problem with so many companies breaking the law in order to exploit young workers for their own financial gain.
A degree is not needed for the job I’m in and I am on an average starting salary which can be hard to live on however the company look after us well in other ways.
I am happy to have a job at all and am surprised how happy I am in a job I never saw myself in!
See my 6 top tips on starting a career unrelated to your degree: http://tinyurl.com/3ur7d3n
Well, I just feel as if I’ve been dumped basically. I might as well have stayed in Glastonbury as a hippy on the dole rather than going to university, its done absolutely nothing for me at all. In Bristol, the only jobs available are either sales, marketing or recruitment (and I’m just hopeless at selling), call centre jobs (where you’re basically treated like a slave as far as I can see – all bar the whips), retail jobs that any dumbass could do for an absolute pittance or admin jobs as receptionists or the like. I spent the best part of two years following my graduation, applying like crazy for even this mediocre level of crap job, but nothing…. I suspect being 44 doesn’t help, and large numbers of non-graduates all applying for the same jobs at a time when there seems to be a definite anti-graduate bias probably makes it worse. I have absolutely loads of admin experience therefore should be able to get a proper full time admin job no problem, but no. This is why I’m trying to freelance, I might only just be able to afford my share of the rent and bills (sometimes not even that) but at least I keep my self-respect and avoid being treated worse than a dog in the gutter. I have absolutely no respect at all for UK employers. They don’t deserve quality staff and it seems they’re not interested in quality staff any way. All around me in Bristol, whenever I go into town, are foul-mouthed, uncouth, scraggy, overly aggressive excuses for human beings who can’t even speak English properly judging by constant inability to spell or pronounce even basic words – how on earth could these people ever hope to write a report, deliver a presentation or even present an acceptable welcome at a reception desk? Yet they have jobs while I scratch a living, if thats what you can call it, as a freelancer. Thats what its come to. Employers, pretty much most of them as far as I can see, would much rather prefer to employ dross than quality staff with high standards. No wonder so many people are leaving the UK, if I didn’t love my country so much, that is the land itself… I would to. Bring on climate change, the sooner the better, because this country’s population in my view is long overdue a really good, hard, kick up the backside.
Okay, apologies, a few spelling mistakes in there myself, but hardly surprising when I’m so extremely angry….
I have to say that I can see many of my friends who never went to university (some of them did NVQ’s) who are in their 20s who are earning more money and have not had such a hard time finding a job. They don’t have a student loan to pay back and never had to think about taking unpaid internships and I would prefer to be in their position.
A degree does not constitute training for a particular job. Even vocational degrees (engineering, legal, medical) are simply a grounding — theoretical knowledge to be applied once undertaking specialist on-the-job training.
Historically (say, 3 decades ago), the low numbers of new graduates in all subjects (around 5% of population) meant that a non-vocational degree could be taken as a sign that a candidate had a reasonable level of intelligence, had a decent level of literacy (and/or numeracy), and could apply themselves consistently enough not to get thrown off a 3 year course.
(nb. it was common in those days for student to get thrown off courses for not coming up to scratch — especially in polytechnics, which were more willing to give prospective students a chance to start a course if they had vocational FE qualifications rather than A levels.. It was not uncommon for only a third of a course’s intake to graduate)
This led to a situation where someone with a non-vocational degree had a good chance of being taken on by a company ahead of people who might be equally intelligent and capable, but who had simply decided not to go on to higher education. And as higher education was free, it also meant that having a degree was good ammunition in the fight against nepotism — and for a short while meritocratic social mobility seemed like a reality.
Of course this created the myth that having a degree (any degree) would always lead to a high paying job — and paved the way for the huge expansion in higher education. Unfortunately, this also resulted in a huge drop in post-school vocational training — such as apprenticeships (a lot of it due to there being insufficient school leavers of the intelligence and ability required to learn those skills – they had all gone off to university instead). Ironically, the old British class system had stratified society in a way that ensured that there were clever people available at all socio-economic levels. The era of “opportunities for all” meant that anyone who was capable of getting a degree could go off and get one.
We are now in the post-HE-boom world. Non-vocational degrees no longer give anyone an advantage in the workplace. Nepotism is back in fashion. Salaries are in decline. Unions have little power. Social mobility has stalled. Bankers extract obscene amounts of money whilst wrecking the economy. Manufacturing has moved abroad. Society could be ripe for revolution. Interesting times ahead.
@DB
Thanks so much for this interesting analysis… Are you a recent graduate? And if so, how does coming out of uni into the ‘post-HE-boom’ make you feel?
Hi Tanya,
No, I’m not a recent graduate. In fact I graduated in the mid 80s — so am a product of the pre-boom. However, I do know a lot of recent graduates, and it breaks my heart to see the difficulties many of them are in.
To put things in perspective, in “my day” not only were there no student fees, but it was possible to get grants (not loans) to cover living expenses. Parents were required to make a contribution, but if you were from a poor background (as I was) you could get a “full grant” — which was just enough to live on if you were reasonably frugal. That meant not having to work part-time, and made it possible to spend much more time actually studying.
I took a sandwich course that included two six month “placements” in industry — which were, of course, paid. On graduating (with no debt) I had a choice(!) of job offers — and started with a salary that was high enough for me to afford a mortgage (this was in Oxfordshire).
I realise that to many of today’s graduates this must sound like some sort of fairy tale — but it was a fairly normal situation for someone taking a vocational degree back then. And this was via a polytechnic, not a “Russell Group” university.
However, even then I could see how higher education was developing, and so was not surprised when it went the way it did. Of course it was government policy to ramp-up the numbers of people going into higher education. Youth unemployment had started to soar in the 70s and 80s, and by keeping as many youngsters as possible in education up to the age of 21 it made a huge dent in the statistics.
The trouble was that larger numbers meant that grants became unaffordable, so they stopped, and so students had to work part-time in order to live. Further enlargement of the sector meant that the cost of running universities became too big a burden on taxes, so students were forced pay part of the cost (via loans).
However, the enlargement of the HE sector was allowed to happen in a laissez-faire way, in that universities were relatively free to offer whatever subjects they thought students would pay for. With the folk memory of “good jobs” being available for anyone with a degree — any degree — students happily signed up to study subjects that sounded fun and interesting.
The result? Lots of graduates in subjects that are not particularly relevant to any specific career, when there has not been a corresponding growth in jobs that require “non career specific” graduates. At the same time, some areas of industry actually struggle to find graduates with the right degrees — and often have to resort to employing graduates from abroad.
The solution? I’m not sure if there is one. On an individual basis, the best anyone can probably do is follow the advice on this (and maybe some other) websites. As for society, I fear we are in for a lot of upheaval.
There is currently a wave of revolution spreading across the middle east. It has been portrayed in the media as some sort of demand for democracy — but interviews with the protestors suggest a different story. The “revolutionaries” are mainly educated people — mostly young graduates, who have gained degrees through study at universities as far away as Europe and the USA. They have paid huge fees for that education too. However, they have been unable to use those degrees to get decent jobs.
Listen to the interviews with demonstrators from Cairo, or Benghazi, and there is a common theme — all they really want is “opportunities”. They want to be able to have well paid jobs, in their chosen careers, just as they imagined they would eventually get after spending all that time, effort, and money, studying. But the jobs just aren’t there — and the only people they see thriving are the relatives of a small clique. The people have had enough, and they want change.
But is it so different here? Lots of graduates — few graduate job opportunities — nepotism amongst the rich. Looks pretty similar to me.
Hi I’m aged 43 and doing my 5th open uni course. So I will have an ordinary degree by the end of the year and a Hons degree if I go for 1 more year.
I left school with 4 0 Grades so I really had to push my self to get my brain going. I’m surprised that I have the brain cells, and I’m on target for a 2:1. Not bad for a non academic
Any way I started working for 95p per hour , that was totally ****. But many people at the time back in 1984 were on Youth Training schemes and were earning 60 p per hour. I went 9 years with out a wage rise even though my performance is good as manager, The manufacturing company I work for is struggling at the moment. So I’m glad I eventually got a rise a few months ago after causing rumours about me leaving. As someone with a non glamorous job I now find out that with out any training certificates towards my job that I am one of a a handful of people in the world who actually understand the technical side of my job and my services are highly in demand.
Robin Whitlock who said “retail jobs that any dumbass could do for an absolute pittance” should have a good look at him self
I know your are pissed off but these people doing these jobs deserve some respect!! Just as much as you deserve some respect.
We are producing to many graduates and probably need more maths and engineering/ science grads
Australia is in a bit of a boom but they are looking for ordinary workers like bakers. Who work hard
I also know that in Aberdeen the bus company’s are also struggling to fill positions and the salary is about £ 30k if you include some over time and bonus. You know you could allways start in a non glamourous job and then build on it when a better position in that company turns up!
I also noted today that the Open Uni has has more applications this year from young people. I guess its good to get some experience on a lowish paid job and have less debt.
Good luck to everyone
My training was in fine art- although I had a good working knowledge of design applications and project development I graduated in 06 and have applied for graduate roles, internships and other jobs constantly with no luck since then, my degree has not benefited me in any way- my roles since have paid me 10,000 and they are not training or internships. My university was not particularly supportive either during or after my degree. My work is at a high standard and I am nice to my customers and work colleagues. My work is quite dead end and I’m more qualified than my managers- I cannot afford work experience. I’ve run out of ideas to change my situation, I’d love to change it.
ps that meant art work, but also includes my everyday work
@Tanya – With reference to the £20k job in 2000 after a summer de-stapling, it’s just occurred to me to look it up: that is roughly the equivalent (acc to thisismoney’s historic inflation calculator) of £27,200k now! :O
(Though if what I presume were London rent levels are taken into account – not sure how much they’ve changed since 2000 compared to the RPI or CPI – maybe it works out as slightly different).
*I meant £27,200 naturally, not £27,200k 😀
Alex mate, not to depress you or anything but if you take into account London rent, it’s actually worth quite a bit more. In the last 5 years alone rents in the capital have risen by about 20%.
I remember when I first moved there in 2007 it was pretty easy to find a room in a flatshare for about £80 a week. Good luck with that now.
Still, a drop in unemployment can only be good news overall.