TIMES COLUMNIST CAITLIN MORAN AND LABOUR MP STELLA CREASY AMONG THOSE WHO RT’D
Simon Cowell faced a Twitterstorm during last night’s X Factor final, as our story about four unpaid interns working full-time on the X Factor set for the last three months was re-tweeted thousands of times by angry followers.
In less than an hour, our website received over 3,500 visits, as news spread that the ITV show has had four full-time, unpaid interns working on-set for the last three months, assisting stylist Laury Smith. Our story enjoyed a major boost when it was retweeted by Times columnist and author Caitlin Moran and Labour MP for Walthamstow Stella Creasy. It said:
Ads on #xfactor tonight cost £8,000 per SECOND. Yet they can’t pay their interns the min wage?! http://t.co/InKCMebn @simoncowell
The excitement marked the end of a busy weekend for Graduate Fog. On Saturday, news broke that broadcasting union BECTU had convinced officials at HM Revenue and Customs (who are responsible for enforcing the minimum wage for interns) to study our evidence – which could lead to an official investigation. This was picked up by the Guardian, whose story was also widely circulated on Twitter and Facebook.
If you haven’t been following our story this week, here’s what happened. We were first tipped off about four unpaid interns working on set by Daily Mail columnist Liz Jones. In her piece Inside the X Factory she alleged that the inerns — working for X Factor stylist Laury Smith — were “exhausted and in tears.”
We then approached representatives for the X Factor Style Team, who confirmed that there were four “regular” interns (“occasionally more on show days — Saturday and Sunday”), who had been working on-set for the last three months. Their duties involved “organising contestant and dancer clothes, picking up, co ordinating at studio, pressing garments, customising garments and doing returns after the live shows” and their working hours were “generally 10-6ish” (“Later sometimes if on video/ studios far out of town like Teddington & Shepperton”). Despite being paid only “travel and food,” Smith insisted:
“They are a great group, they work hard and we really cherish them. It is a totally normal situation in the industry, they get great experience and are now really ready to be employed as fashion assistants, with a years worth of experience in 3 months and a great reference”.
When we then approached Talkback Thames — the production company behind X Factor — they insisted they were “not aware” of the existence of these interns and asked that we make it clearer in our editorial that “her [Smith’s] interns are not X Factor interns.” A second spokesperson insisted this had been “an isolated incident.”
But we think that’s not good enough. Bosses of companies that make money from young people should be aware that being found to have unpaid interns working for them is a very bad look. With record youth unemployment, the spread of this illegal practice is a big – and emotive – issue for those in their teens and early twenties. These interns receive payment towards their travel and food – but how are they supposed to pay their rent and their other bills? Living in London is expensive – and experience and expenses do not equal pay.
Unpaid labour is not the solution to youth unemployment – it is a big part of the problem. That’s our message to Mr Cowell. If X Factor is found to have broken the law, we would like him to issue a public apology so that other big businesses will get the message loud and clear that it is not okay to take advantage of their young staff, whatever the economic climate.
*SHOULD SIMON COWELL APOLOGISE?
Do you believe that the makers of X Factor were “not aware” of the four unpaid interns who have been working full-time, on set for the last three months? Will Simon Cowell have an attack of conscience? Or will he continue to ignore the growing anger over this story?
One question:
Why so much about Simon Cowell? Sure he’s an influential man, and therefore a big, easy to hit, target – but is he relevant at all?
Tanya, I’m going to need you to tell me the repeated mentioning of Simon Cowell (title, meta tags, etc) isn’t just for SEO and social media visibility purposes and explain your reasoning behind focusing on him.
@Nick
Eh??! I just find him smug – doesn’t everyone?! – and X Factor is his multi-million pound company, so I think he should take responsibility for this! I think it’s shocking that a brand that has made zillions out of trading on young people’s hopes and ambitions has been caught using unpaid labour and has not even apologised, in fact the only reps who have given any kind of statement have said they were “not aware” that these interns were even there! Are they invisible?! I thnk that’s really insulting – am I alone?
And I’m afraid you over-estimate my SEO capabilities…! What’s a meta tag? I have put X Factor in the title of the last 3 stories, so decided to change the focus to stop it sounding samey, that’s all!
I say put Simon Cowell on the chopping block, it’s his company. Or at least someone needs to step up and take responsibility. When the Salahis gate crashed the White House and made Obama look like an idiot, other people had to step up to save the President’s reputation (even though it wasn’t his faulty). Simon Cowell is the most senior person in the company, therefore he needs to be held accountable. In fact if he told Laury Smith to pay her interns she’d do it…. otherwise she’d probably lose her job. If we tell Laury Smith to pay her interns, she probably won’t listen.
@Tanya – sorry for doubting you. Whilst it would be amazing to get an apology from him on behalf of his company, I doubt he has any real involvement in running it anyway.
The actual X-Factor intern story is one worth following. However what I want clarification on is the position of the stylist they were working for. Is she an outsourcing by Talkback? Or an employee?
Sorry Tanya, I don’t agree with you on this one.
Look, Laury Smith knew the interns weren’t paid. Laury Smith, then, should apologise publicly.
Despite them being Laury’s interns, if Talkback Thames had actual knowledge the interns were unpaid – despite their policy to the pay all – they should apologise. But unless they knew, they have nothing to be sorry for.
And if Simon Cowell doesn’t have actual knowledge, then he too has nothing to be sorry for. If he has nothing to be sorry for, he can’t sincerely apologise.
We have to look at culpability here – and Laury is the one who is culpable, not Simon. I agree Simon is smug, but he’s a celebrity figurehead for his company – I don’t imagine he’s involved much in PR.
Can you give me any more convincing a reason to ask for an apology?
@Nick – it appears she is a freelancer. If she was working off-site and the X Factor (Talkback Thames) people never saw her interns, then maybe they could claim they didn’t know the details of her financial arrangement with them. BUT we are talking about four people, on-set, full-time for three months. Liz Jones worked out in her one-day visit that they weren’t being paid. You’d have thought someone else might have asked before that, no?
Also, from Jones’ visit, it seems that X Factor / Talkback Thames were happy to use these interns to help promote the programme, yet when they are asked to take responsibility for them they are not prepared to do so. IMO they can’t have it both ways. These 4 workers are either part of the team, or they’re not.
@Eva – I agree 100%! Everybody knows that Simon Cowell IS the X Factor – that’s why he broke away from American Idol to go it alone. I’m not suggesting he knew about these 4 unpaid interns – like you, i’m pretty sure he didn’t – but IMO, the person at the top of the organisation is ultimately responsible. That’s why ministers resign when someone in their dept screws up something really important. Even if they didn’t know about it themselves, they should have done. That’s why they get paid the big bucks, because they’re ultimately responsible.
My questions are – Is it true that nobody at Talkback Thames knew these interns were there? If they knew they were there, did the know they weren’t being paid? Was Laury Smith told she must pay her workers and ignored that order? Or did people at Talkback Thames know about it and choose not to do anything about it?
HR *** not PR, I mean!
He is the only PR he needs, I think.
@Craig – see my comment just now
If there is a serious enough screw-up within a company (and I believe this is one), then the person at the head of the organisation (Simon Cowell, in this case) should apologise.
Saying that HR didn’t know is no excuse, IMO. There should be processes in place so that everybody working on X Factor is accounted for. And by the way, Talkback Thames said they were “not aware” that these interns even existed – not just that they didn’t know they weren’t being paid:
Yet these FOUR people were on-set, all day every day, for three months. How is it possible that nobody knew they were there?? Liz Jones walked straight into them – they were being used to promote the “X FActor style team.”
Yet these FOUR people were on-set, all day every day, for three months. How is it possible that nobody knew they were there?? Liz Jones walked straight into them — they were being used to promote the “X FActor style team.”
If they were taken on by the freelancer then it is not reasonable to assume that employees of SC’s company or Talkback had any knowledge of the unpaid workers contract’s or work obligations.
Neither is it SC’s responsibility, its HR, they engage freelancers. However if freelancers subcontract or engage their own staff then its down to the contract between the freelancer and whoever they engage and typically not the responsibility of the end user.
@Derrick
I disagree – if this “don’t ask don’t tell” policy is the official system at a huge operation like X Factor, it’s not good enough. IF Laury had been working from an external, off-site studio (or her home), they that MAY have been a slight defense for Talkback Thames. But they weren’t – they were on-set, right there, in front of them all.
Also, in whatever fee Laury agreed with Talkback Thames / X Factor when she was commissioned to do the work, there should have been some provision for her to have some assistants, surely? Are we suggesting that she billed Talkback for her work, and her four interns’ work – and kept the lot? I think that’s unlikely. I think it’s more likely that these interns never even appeared on her invoices (or fee breakdown before she started the job). In which case, when Talkback became aware that she was using 4 interns (which they deny), how did they think these four people were getting paid?
It is crystal clear to me that Laury’s fee breakdown should have included a line saying:
Plus four interns, at £6.08 an hour (NMW), X days a week for three months = £X,000.00
If it wasn’t there, it should have been. Laury should have put it there – and Talkback Thames should have noticed that it wasn’t there. They are all responsible – and Simon Cowell is the boss of this company. If he thinks it’s important, he should take responsibility and apologise.
I disagree — if this “don’t ask don’t tell” policy is the official system at a huge operation like X Factor, it’s not good enough. IF Laury had been working from an external, off-site studio (or her home), they that MAY have been a slight defense for Talkback Thames. But they weren’t — they were on-set, right there, in front of them all.
Yes, a very busy film set, used only twice a week, with no one having time or being party to everyone else’s contract. People simply don’t have time to get discuss the nitty gritty of some young person’s contract – its not done on set, and everyone has confidentiality clauses also.
Also, in whatever fee Laury agreed with Talkback Thames / X Factor when she was commissioned to do the work, there should have been some provision for her to have some assistants, surely? Are we suggesting that she billed Talkback for her work, and her four interns’ work — and kept the lot? I think that’s unlikely.
I think, it functions like most companies she simply billed accounts payable and they paid them, accounts payable have no idea of her costs or how she goes about her work, they simply pay it. This is very normal.
I think it’s more likely that these interns never even appeared on her invoices (or fee breakdown before she started the job). In which case, when Talkback became aware that she was using 4 interns (which they deny), how did they think these four people were getting paid?
It is crystal clear to me that Laury’s fee breakdown should have included a line saying:
Plus four interns, at £6.08 an hour (NMW), X days a week for three months = £X,000.00
If it wasn’t there, it should have been.
AGREED
Laury should have put it there — and Talkback Thames should have noticed that it wasn’t there.
NO. Talkback are not responsible for the Laurie’s sub-contractual arrangements. When one engages a builder, one doesn’t ask to see the contracts of the brickies, chippies and plasterers.
They are all responsible — and Simon Cowell is the boss of this company. If he thinks it’s important, he should take responsibility and apologise.
Society is to blame. I apologise.
I agree that it’s not the Cowell that should be the first to apologise, as I doubt he even knows this is going on. It’s the team that creates the show, and thus employs the interns, that is to blame and that should apologise.
Tanya, I just don’t see how you can compare ministerial responsibility to that of the head of a public or private company. The concepts do not translate.
Suppose for this scenario he *should* apologise:
Ministers are public servants who take their position as the ultimate responsibility for a department. They take responsibility for their department at the peril of their office, liable to the voters.
Executives and company owners are responsible only to their fellow directors and shareholders, where appropriate. They don’t have to resign. James Murdoch was the figurehead for the whole phone hacking scandal – something I’d say a hundred times, at least, worse than hiring four unpaid interns. How bitter and prolonged was his ultimate resignation let alone an apology?
You think Simon Cowell is going to apologise? I’ve gotta say the track record for people in such positions apologising for far greater evils is not promising – what makes you think an apology will be forthcoming over four interns taken on by a freelancer who happened to work with the X-factor who he probably didn’t know about and ought not to have known about?
Not worth gambling on, I’ll tell you that!
In any event, I don’t believe he should apologise. Unless he knew or ought to have knew that unpaid interns were being employed on the show (and if the policy of his company is to pay all interns, then I doubt he ought to have known), then he has nothing to apologise for.
I hate to defend the smug – But I’m happy to defend anyone where due. I’m on the side of unpaid interns, but the line of liability here does not lead to Simon Cowell or probably even Talkback Thames.
P.s. Tanya, I actually may like to speak to you about some writing I’m involved in. How can I contact you?
A lot of people think that James Murdoch should have resigned! Rebekah Brooks resigned and the News of the World closed. Tony Hayward resigned from BP after the oil spill. I’m not comparing the use of unpaid interns to either of these stories – but they do illustrate the point that when a company makes a significantly big mistake, somebody senior has to be responsible for it, and there have to be investigations as to how that mistake was allowed to happen.
Although no major harm was done in the case of the X Factor interns, if these interns are found to have been working illegally, I do think that someone senior at X Factor should apologise for it. We are talking about the exploitation of young people, and a disregard for the national minimum wage law – and that is a very serious matter. I only wish more interns would believe it…
YES they should resign it was their employees, in this instance its a subcontractor employing others, its not the same thing at all.
Okay, let me put this another way…
Do you believe that Talkback Thames (“X Factor”) were “not aware” that the stylist Laury Smith had interns working for her?
If Yes >>> how is that possible, when they were working on-set, full-time, for three months? Do TT need to tighten their systems to ensure that illegal workers are never working on X Factor again?
If No >> who at Talkback Thames DID know that these interns were there? Were any questions asked about who was paying them? If not, why not?
Do you think that Talkback Thames assumed the stylist was paying her interns out of her own pocket?
If Yes >> were they detailed on her invoice? If not, how did they think they were getting paid?
If No >> were they aware that having unpaid workers is illegal and that they – as well as Laury – could be prosecuted?
I think it’s pretty damning either way:
If nobody at TT knew those FOUR interns were there – and that they were unpaid – then they damn well should have done. That is negligence. They should have better processes in place to ensure this never happens again.
If TT DID know those interns were there – and that they were unpaid – they should have done something about it. Pushing the blame on to the stylist is a cop-out – they are responsible too.
Maybe Talkback Thames just didn’t care. I think that’s more likely than “they knew or didn’t know”. When I interned in the publicity department at a certain HUGE film distribution company (if I said the name, you would know), I was an unpaid intern who had expenses covered (travel and lunch). Unbeknownst to me, I had to file my own invoice to claim expenses. I worked entirely for free for a month and a half before I finally brought it up to my boss who looked at me like I was an idiot for not knowing sooner that I had to invoice the company (who was supposed to have “hired” me).
Like my company, who really couldn’t care less if I got my travel and lunch covered, I think TT just couldn’t be bothered with knowing. However, now that it has come to light SOMEBODY needs to do something. This incident impacts the image of the company. Simon Cowell has never come across as a humble guy, but at least put your ego aside in light of this. If Laury Smith embarrassed the company by using unpaid slaves, then get rid of her. The X Factor will not sink if she no longer puts together outfits: Based on what I read in the article, her styling was pretty run of the mill anyhow.
Right now some damage control needs to be done and if that means Simon Cowell needs to get off his smug butt and apologize, so be it. For some reason, I think that if it were revealed that Laury Smith employed illegal aliens and paid them slave wages, there would be more outrage.
If nobody at TT knew those FOUR interns were there — and that they were unpaid — then they damn well should have done. That is negligence. They should have better processes in place to ensure this never happens again.
With all do respect Tanya, you may know a lot about the minimum wage and internships, but don`t really grasp how business works.
Just to clarify if subcontractor has illegal workers on the site, or doesn`t pay them, the company paying the contractor is under no obligation to check if they have right to work in UK, or check they pay arrangements unless otherwise agreed.
If Yes >> were they detailed on her invoice? If not, how did they think they were getting paid?
That just sums up your lack of knowledge. What about the invoice written for specific company for the work completed? Would you expect breakdown *james-gardening,Chris-painting etc.
Not saying what happened is right, as i think they absolutely should ve been paid but at least pick the right arguments.
Have you interned unpaid for X Factor – or any other well-known TV show? Fancy some free money?
Check out Interns Fight for Justice – the new campaign from Graduate Fog and Intern Aware. We are looking for interns who are feeling brave / angry / skint enough to challenge their former employers and request the wages they are owed for the work they did unpaid.
Even if your internship was a while ago and you agreed to work unpaid at the time, that doesn’t matter. The minimum wage works out at around £1,000 a month, so depending on the length of your internship you could be in line to receive a tidy sum!
Just get in touch with us for more information:
https://graduatefog.co.uk/2012/2080/interns-fight-justice-campaign/
Thanks!
Graduate Fog x
PS. None of this will cost you a penny!