10-PARAGRAPH RANT CLAIMS “MEDIA JEOPARDY” FORCING MPs TO “SHY AWAY” FROM ADVERTISING UNPAID POSITIONS PUBLICLY
* GRADUATE FOG EXCLUSIVE *
A spokesperson for the MP who has advertised eight unpaid internships has reacted angrily when challenged by Graduate Fog. And his rage made him sloppy – as he openly admitted that many MPs are using underhand tactics to recruit unpaid interns secretly, now they are nervous about doing it publicly.
Earlier this week, we wrote about John Leech, the Manchester MP who appears to be staging a one-man campaign to preserve the practice of recruiting desperate young workers to perform what appears to be an unpaid job. Today, we can reveal what happened when we tried to question him about what he thinks he’s playing at. The angry response was full of distorted ideas about unpaid internships and even a downright creepy reference to where the founder of this website was at school.
Was our email the most professional message we’ve ever sent? Probably not – but hey, we’re a blog, not a broadsheet. To be honest, we were in a silly mood that day and didn’t expect him to reply. And we definitely didn’t expect a ten-page rant, sent less than two hours later (Doesn’t this guy have anything more important to do?).
This is what we sent:
And this is what came back:
Which bit did you enjoy the most?
- The argument that unpaid internships definitely aren’t unfair – as those who do them sometimes get paid jobs later? (THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT, YOU DOOFUS)
- The claim that meanie campaigners and “media jeopardy” had forced poor, well-meaning MPs to ‘shy away’ from advertising their excellent vacancies publicly?
- The creepy reference to this website’s founder’s “fee paying” school – the name of which he could only have found on her Facebook profile (it isn’t on this website, or Tanya’s LinkedIn profile)?
What is your reaction to the email from John Leech’s office? Tell us what you think below…
So you redact a publicly available email address but leave private phone numbers untouched? Yes, you’re a blog – a weird excuse for not bothering to do do actual journalism – but that is fucking stupid.
@ You idiot
Anyone is free to call him – I just didn’t want the bots to spam him (or me!) Why should I remove his phone number? I’m pretty sure it’s publicly available.
If anyone else feels strongly about this too, I will remove the phone numbers.
Okay I have removed the phone numbers. Realised one of them might be his home. Thanks for pointing this out – although next time please don’t swear.
You’ve asked for a response. He’s given you a passionate and detailed one. Instead of responding with the arguments or facts, you publish the whole e-mail and belittle him with the exact snobbery that he’s complaining about?
That’s sure to make people want to engage with your blog in future? Shoddy journalism.
@Dave
Oh dear, sorry you didn’t like the story! If you don’t like our rough-round-the-edges style then I fear Graduate Fog may not be the site for you 🙁
Happily a lot of people don’t share your views – here are just some of the comments on Twitter…
@MartinBright Great post from @GraduateFog on what happened when it challenged Lib Dem MP John Leech on unpaid interns
@callumrsmith Anyone citing Wikipedia in an arsey email as definitive (and not, y’know, a dictionary) is clearly a fool.
@Amy Taylor Ouch! There is no part of that email that I don’t love.
@dsage86 Unbelievable. He and his office are completely shameless in their use of interns. If he’s serious about giving young people a chance, why not pay them NMW at the same time?
@VMcAVSKY Completely flawed defence of unpaid internships+unprofessional response by John Leech MP’s office to @GraduateFog
It’s been RT’d by Sunny Hundal and Guido Fawkes just added a link to their sidebar…
No idea why you’re so proud of this. The MP’s totally owned you.
Think sticking a selfie on your wall of shame more apt.
@HamsterWheel Wow, it looks like a small number of people really don’t like this story! Thanks for sharing your views…
Nice work – I see BBC have picked up this story. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26968102
It’s interesting that you describe the people who might volunteer for an intern post as “desperate.” If a person is desperate it stands to reason they will take whatever post they think is their absolute best option. You, it appears, are campaigning to take all the absolute best options from people who you feel are desperate. You must be so proud.
He’s got you bang to rights, Tanya, but you seem too pleased with yourself to have noticed.
Welcome to politics Tanya. This is a world where ad hominem attacks such as “You went to a private school. How dare you oppose unpaid internships!” replace rational debate. It is a petty tribal bubble. I used to be in this bubble and you spend an unhealthy amount of time interacting with people who share your political outlook. Political obsessives drinking with other political obsessives. It isn’t healthy and probably explains the rudeness of Mr Glover’s e-mail.
It’s pretty brazen of the MP to talk about internships boosting social mobility, then following up by acknowledging that in the current climate many roles are only open to people who have gained experience in an internship. Of course, working as an intern requires independent means or support, which is disproportionately less possible for working class people. Internships are a fundamental and systemic attack on social mobility, not a boost to it.
I don’t know who all these naysayers are, but I find his email unsatisfactory, unconvincing, and I’m afraid it hasn’t changed my view on the whole situation.
I come from a very priveledged background and I couldn’t afford to do any of those internships. Promoting social mobility? Who does he think he’s kidding?
The usual appalling behaviour from those who claim to represent us, while secretly stuffing wodges of cash into their pockets and whining when they get found out.
MPs using unpaid workers and then scrabbling around in the gutter as they get their assistants to defend the practice as somehow being an “opportunity” for young people.
They really have absolutely no idea about how the real world works. Shame on you John Leech. But I’m guessing you’ve inured yourself to that particular emotion.
@CostaDel
“I come from a very priveledged background and I couldn’t afford to do any of those internships.”
That’s one of the (many!) reasons why I object to making this issue into rich kids v poor kids. How many can afford to work for free for months on end (anywhere, but especially in London)? Your parents need to be pretty wealthy (as opposed to just comfortable) to be prepared to fund your rent and living costs for that period of time. Also, lots of parents don’t see why they should have to pay these costs! If their son/ daughter is working, why can’t they pay their own rent? Why should mums and dads subsidize the cheapskate employers taking advantage of their kids? It’s a fair point!
Tanya de Grunwald is the Peaches Geldof of Journalism.
Is ‘costadel’ Tanya’s alias? It seems to be the only person agreeing with the landfill on this blog. I’m sure everyone else is in agreement with me that unpaid internships separate the determined from everyone else which therefore makes them stand out to employers.
A wonderful reply from John’s office which highlights what low-level, grasping at straws,’journalism’this really is.
Try working in politics some time, you may come to understand it.
@Jim
Unfortunately not. Just a very active regular to the site.
And please, let me correct you: I agree with the principle that unpaid internships are wrong. I don’t necessarily support or always agree with Tanya’s methods.
I’m afraid I don’t agree with your statement about unpaid internships separating the most “determined” from everyone else. Save repeating myself, you can find my reasoning in the other thread, “Shameless! MP advertises his EIGHTH unpaid internship”.
@Jim – I certainly do not agree with you on unpaid internships. It seems that for you, ‘determined’ = ‘monied’. Why on earth should someone be working in London for no money?
Unfortunately, the “angry” response of Charles Glover (and not the MP) does not seem angry compared to the email you sent them.
I think your way of communicating your views is rude, intrusive and ineffective. People are more likely to take into account the views and arguments of those who can express their opinion in a polite and logical manner.
I’m also unsure why you decide for graduates what they need. If unpaid internships do exist, it means there is a demand for them. Nothing exists without demand. And demand for such internships exists precisely because graduates need them. They can decide for themselves. If they need a paid internship, there are plenty as well.
For many unpaid internships is the only way to build a career because they do not have enough experience to find a proper job or even a paid internship. Why would you want to take it away from graduates, I have no clue. I believe that those who need a job, will eventually find one. And those who want to stay unemployed, will stay unemployed. The UK is not the kind of country that doesn’t provide its graduates with any support and where you cannot survive if you don’t have a job.
Anyway, my point is that what you are doing seems pointless to me: a rude shout out does nothing to promote anything good, it only creates more anger and misunderstanding.
If I were you, I’d do something more useful in my life…
@Lyudmila and all the other trollers who are here, just for this post and have never graced this webpage ever before
Why should employers who work hard to ensure all their employees are paid NMW have to compete with unfairly employers who don’t? How is that good for the British economy and business compliance in the UK?
I often disagree with Tanya’s position and find her leaning towards sensationalism. However, while her tone inthis case could have been more thought through, and definitely unwise to plug her book, her sentiment is absolutely correct.
The use of unpaid internships in politics is insidious, and perpetuates inequalities. The fact that so many apologists are rushing to defend the status quo is quite telling, many who I suspect may be Lib Dem mouthpieces or friends of Leech. They have clearly bought into the system, and wish to shore up the privileges they have recieved from it.
If this was coming from the Tories I would expect it. Privilege, hierarchy and keeping the lower orders out and people in their place is very much part of what they stand for. The fact that it is coming from the Lib Dems, a party that is supposed to be more inclusive and liberal is a disgrace, and demonstrates how far they are willing to sell out their ideals for short term goals. A family member of mine is a party member who is thinking of quitting, and wwhen I raise this with her it will probably tip her over the edge I reckon.
As far as I can see it, if you are for unpaid internships as a first step of a political career, you are part of the problem. If you have done one, you are keeping a system of exploitation going, and are actively working against the idea of inclusiveness in democracy. Access to politics should not be about who is willing to suffer the most, as this will only result in brazen careerists. The fact that one of the people could NOT have secured a £27k post without her unpaid experience is an indictment of the system, not an endorsement.
“Other people do it, so why shouldn’t we. We are just more open about it.” does not justify anything. Would you make the same argument about child abuse? What about sex trafficking. If “the ends justify the means” is the line happily taken by our so called representatives, it is a truly sad reflection of the world we are living in.
@All
Wow, interesting debate! Thanks for all the comments.
What’s clear to me is that a number of newcomers to this site – brought by the Leech story – are very far behind the supposed ‘debate’ on unpaid internships. Well done for everyone who has had the patience to try and explain the basics to people who urgently need educating on this.
For anyone who is still not clear on the argument, you might like to check out Intern Aware’s brilliant new site, and also this piece in the Guardian:
Interns – all work, no pay
After reading that, I think it’s pretty hard to argue that unpaid internships are a ‘system’ that works for anyone except the employers, who continue to get something for nothing.
Also, for the record:
– I did not mean to ‘plug’ my book – that is simply my email signature!
– As regular GFers know, I have never claimed to speak on behalf of all graduates / interns, but think I can serve a useful purpose in sharing the general sentiments of this group of people, telling journalists etc the kind of thing you are saying. I think I’ve done a pretty good job of this so far (almost completely unpaid!) and am not about to apologise for it. How often do you hear anyone else sticking up for this group? The TUC, the unions and the NUS occasionally chip in, but for the most part is me and Intern Aware (who also do it for very little financial reward)
– As for GF being occasionally sensationalist, the feedback is appreciated but frankly that’s something I can live with if it means drawing attention the to plight of today’s graduates and interns. There is so much ‘noise’ out there that you have to do something bold to be heard. There are plenty of careers websites out there who do a brilliant job of being totally boring, so if GF isn’t for you then you have options 🙂 I admitted that the tone of my email to Leech’s office wasn’t 100% professional but at the moment I sent it it just seemed like a bit of fun. Besides, this is a blog, not a broadsheet! I feel that means I have more scope to treat the editorial in different ways depending on the nature of the story, but please keep feeding back on this as it’s definitely something to bear in mind if a large number of graduates (as opposed to a handful of trolls) feel I’m getting the tone wrong.
Thanks again for all your comments –
Tanya
PS Feel free to disagree with anything I’ve said here if you can do so politely and constructively, but if anybody gets abusive or aggressive, I reserve the right to delete your comment.
Sorry Tanya, you have been owned here, 100%.
You say the “newcomers to this site are behind the debate” and “desperately need educating”. How wonderfully patronising of you.
These newcomers are simply normal, everyday people that simply disagree with you. Or at least a lot/the majority of them.
You, however, spend all your time with the people at the front end of the debate (as you would think), but who the mainstream are frankly unaware of, and/or bored/unconvinced by.
Tanya, your reaction to the email from Charles Glover confirms what I’ve thought for a long while now, you’ve allowed your ego and own need for recognition to cloud your judgement.
I absolutely agree that there has been and continues to be exploitation in the world of internships and that needs to continue to change but you are in danger of becoming a parody of yourself and undoing the good things you have managed to achieve.
I’m sure this is likely to generate a snarky reply saying that if I don’t like your style then I shouldn’t read your articles. You’d be right I probably shouldn’t but I freely admit I sometimes can’t resist responding to the clickbait tweets you send out. I can only imagine Liz Jones is your idol.
Only just come across this story. Agree with many others commenting, the MP comes across better, and Tanya, I am sure you have researched on social media for more background info, so why shouldn’t the tables be turned on you? It was you who published his reply in full for the whole world to see…
While internships for profit-making businesses are wrong, volunteer roles elsewhere are not. What about all the other party supporters who spend hours volunteering? Should they be banned from participating? What will happen to society if volunteering is banned as you seem to wish?
The latest internship appeared very flexible in terms of days worked, and it would have come with a great experience and new skills. Personally, I would have loved a role like this (would still, if it were for a party I supported)and guess what – I would have done it happily for free, not once resenting not being paid – it’s not all about money, Tanya.