WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED THAT YOU WISH YOU’D KNOWN SOONER?
What advice can graduates with jobs give to those who are still hunting?
One of the great strengths of Graduate Fog is you lot – our community. Every day, in the comments below our posts, we hear from readers who are battling all sorts of difficulties in their effort to find work. We are moved that time and time again, the rest of the GF community responds with sympathy, support and advice.
It’s clear that those who have found work don’t forget how it felt when they were hunting for a job. It stays with them (especially if they were looking for a while). And, for all the advice that experts and employers can give, we think it’s those graduates who have actually landed a job who are among the best placed to advise those who are still hunting. Why? Because your views are bang up to date.
So today we’re asking to hear from those of you who have managed to find a job in this tough climate. We want to know: What was the one change that you made that turned things around for you? Did you have a ‘Eureka’ moment where you ditched certain strategies, or broadened your search? How did you motivate yourself on ‘down’ days?
PS. On behalf of those who are still struggling – THANK YOU!
This is so funny – why is everyone suddenly so shy?! Usually Foggers LOVE sharing their advice!
I’ll put a note on some of our most popular posts to see if a few of our regular commenters have time to write something here…
Really need all the advice I can get at the moment. My CV is full the brim with work experience/skills/programmes/internships/long and short term volunteering in various orgs, and yet it feels like I still have to jump through rings of fire, walk on hot coals whilst juggling balls of lava JUST to get a “consideration” email or “another candidate matched the specs much closely” or the dreaded junior entry level grad positions that require “minimum” of 3+ years experience!!!! you can only apply for low wage temp jobs for so long before you start to regret your decision to go to uni in the first place.
After 9 months on the dole, I took the first job offered to me- a call centre job, an hour away from where I live. Not much fun, but still far better than being unemployed.
Not sure about giving advice, because everyone’s situation is different and what works for one industry might not work for another, but I’ll give a summary of my experiences and what worked for me – hopefully that would be useful to someone looking to get into the same industry (media).
I studied modern languages and naively assumed that I’d get on to a big graduate scheme and move to London, because it seemed like this was the formula for success. I gave up on that for a number of reasons a)the hoops you have to jump through just to get to the interview b)the crazy rent prices in London c)most schemes that accepted non-specialist degrees were focused on corporate management and I wanted to do something more creative.
I signed up for a post grad course in journalism, which was very vocational, had the NCTJ accreditation and included an industry placement. It was at a former polytechnic and I turned down an interesting but “useless” MA at a top uni to do that instead. Everyone thought I was crazy but all my future employers cared about was the NCTJ and the work experience rather than where I studied.
I’d contributed articles for free throughout my studies and my placement was also unpaid, so when I finished my course I made a conscious decision not to go for unpaid internships. I got one that was very low paid, finished that, didn’t get a job at the end and moved to Scotland for personal reasons.
I needed a job (any job) quick so I made a CV that focused on retail experience and another one that highlighted media work. I went into shops on the high street and handed out 30 retail CVs over 2 days. On the 30th CV I got a same day interview and on the spot offer at a well known clothes chain. The job advert hadn’t even gone out yet as it was only that morning they’d decided they needed an extra staff member. So it’s worth approaching companies directly rather than joining the online job application queue. It doesn’t work every time, but the worst they can say is no.
I worked part time for 3 months while flogging my media CV left right and centre. A weekly newspaper said they’d consider me for future positions, so every month I (politely) asked them if they had any available. When one of their trainees left they gave me his job. I was there just over a year, the job was a good learning base but it was very low paid and in a small rural town. I wanted to move to a city and earn a bit more so I applied for various jobs online and was offered one on an evening paper. From there I worked up to senior reporter level and I’m still at the company, but at a different paper.
So, to sum up, for me the following things worked:
-looking beyond London, it’s not the be all and end all.
-not being afraid to job hop and move all over the country, including to places that I wouldn’t have normally considered
-approaching employers directly and being persistent but not too pushy
-narrowing down my CV to include only the things that are relevant to the job I’m applying for. Even then I kept it very concise and only included a few key placements and projects, rather than every single one I’ve done. The CV I handed in for the evening paper job was only 1 page long, single side. My last boss told me that he found too many internships on a CV off-putting.
I hope this is helpful – sorry for the long post!
@NV,
Very useful post, thanks! I have seen the NCTJ everywhere on linkedin. My undergrad was very interesting (and geeky) but provided no preparation for a life outside of academia.
Having recently undergone a major career change, I hope I can help others undergoing similar professional transitions. Or, even better, help school leavers (I am 29) make more informed choices with advice I wish that I had been given then. Although I am from Australia, we have similar issues with graduates and perhaps I’ll provide a fresh perspective.
Tanya’s advice about understanding the career landscape, in terms of which industries are dying and which are flourishing, is vital. It sounds obvious, but when I was in high school, my teachers were always stating that following your dreams is the best path forward in the future, which led me to studying journalism and working in communications, because I had always enjoyed English at school. I would say that better advice would be to examine the ways that your passions translate to the current career climate and growing fields, not the workforce our parents experienced. Also, diversify your skills where possible. It is not enough now to specialise in quality copy, aside from rare examples, for instance. If you want to work as a journalist, explore the skills required to work in the platforms now available, such as the digital space. Research a typical job and person specification for working in communications and you will discover that you will be expected to have a basic handling of coding and other technical skills, an understanding of writing for social media versus websites, the ability to produce and edit video, and so on. Really make sure you understand what employers want in your field. Once you are in a job, regularly hold sessions during the year with your supervisor to explore up-skilling options.
Gain genuine insight into your personality, how you work, and your values, rather than focussing on broad passions like communicating with people one-on-one. Once you have this information, you can drill down into the sectors that suit your personality best, the types of jobs that suit your working style, and enhance your chances of winning a job because you will naturally be drawn to job opportunities where the culture of the organisation suits your own values, which will shine through in applications and communications with future employers. I soon discovered when working in communications that I was better at client communications and technical writing than creative campaigns, which formed the bulk of my work. I was a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. Think outside of the box about where your skills work best. For example, technical writing is part and parcel of working in healthcare, such as writing up case notes about patients, and working with patients often requires more person-to-person contact than working in a communications agency. Don’t be limited by stereotypes you hold about professions; talk to people working in fields you are interested in to discover the day-to-day realities of working in that area. Communications work is often far less people-centred than you might think, for instance.
Your job opportunities may not be obvious, particularly in a world where jobs that exist now weren’t present as little as five years ago. Visit a specialist careers guidance counsellor with a clinical psychology background to explore these options, as they have the qualifications to undertake psychometric tests (those pesky things often present in graduate job application processes) and interviews to really know your strengths and weaknesses as a person and future professional, and which sectors and workplace cultures you best suit. Plus, they have great insight into the latest developments in the job climate and a good handle on new job titles, and apply this when providing recommendations to you about areas to pursue. I visited a clinical psychologist in this specialty area when considering changing career paths, and I truly received quality guidance. Although one or two sessions with a consultant may sound more expensive than it worth on the surface, I would say from own experience that investing this money is vital when planning to make a major life choice like choosing a career or making a career change, which is potentially a very costly choice if you undertake studies that do not suit you or lend themselves to real world opportunities. I hope that in the future more schools and universities subsidise these services for students, or employ clinical psychologists specialising in this area themselves.
The current profession I am undertaking studies for, occupational therapy, is still quite a young profession, and I had not even heard of it when I left high school because it wasn’t as well marketed and well known as other professions. However, it is a rapidly expanding healthcare field with more permanent opportunities and growing developments that other fields, given the ageing population and increasing need to provide inclusive services for people with disabilities, injuries and illnesses. UK students actually have an advantage over Australian students in occupational therapy, as the UK NHS fully funds student fees for this degree (though of course there is a cap on the number of students who it does so for) unlike in Oz. Perhaps it would interest readers to discover the benefits of working/studying in the UK healthcare system in positions like this. I only highlight this as a possibility because many people are not familiar with OT as a profession while in high school, I certainly was not!
Unearth the hidden job market and understand that contacts and soft skills are just as essential as technical knowledge. I snagged a part time paid role in the allied health sector by following Tanya’s strategies for establishing a social media presence on LinkedIn and reading various media sources about developments in my field, and approaching a rehabilitation company when they were expanding but had not yet advertised any junior positions. I organised an informal chat over coffee with a supervisor in the company, and utilised the time to get to know them as a human being first and foremost, and ask (well prepared, well researched) questions about the company culture and direction. Send a follow up email thanking them for their time, and send an update about your progress due to any advice they provided from time to time. Do not oversaturate their inbox, but keep yourself in their mind, and tailor your emails to them as a person and the specific conversation you have shared.
Keep it short, sharp and shiny when talking about working with the company; express interest in any opportunities that may arise in the company and leave contact information/CV, but beyond that the meeting is an opportunity to sell yourself by showing your personality and genuine interest in the field, not circling like a vulture for a job. Talk briefly about your experiences (life, previous work, studies etc) as they fit naturally into the conversation, and remember that you need to subtly suggest how you can add value to the company, not what they can do for you.
One good piece of advice someone gave me was that if you can’t get the right job at least get a job in the right building. You can observe people in the job you want and maybe work out what skills you need or even whether it actually is your dream job.
The other thing I found was I was rubbish at interviews and the only way I got better was doing loads of them.
Now all the threads where people are discussing suicide attempts have been closed down lets focus on solutions!
I’ve been working with a job club recently.
Broadly speaking volunteering is a plus.
While volunteering isn’t a cure-all it is better than a gap on the CV which is unacceptable regardless of how bad the economy is. It gives you something to say when you introduce yourself in social situations rather than “I’m unemployed” which tends to be something of a conversation killer. It also keeps you to a routine.
That is the insight I can bring to the table.
Just wanted to let everyone from the previous thread know I’m ok and rich I emailed you
Tanya could you check your emails as I emailed you this afternoon.
Rich if you get this comment update could you please let me know you are ok?
to be honest…i cant seriously advise anything because i’ve followed all from the book (social media, workshops, volunteering, unpaid internships, small part time jobs, tweaking cvs) and none of it worked. yes. NONE of it worked. i was just lucky that my family paid for my masters. not everyone has that luck. those without the fiancial support cant go to uni for further degree which might help them with jobs. and i’ll add a little salt to the wound-despite having a masters degree i still got no work. so uni wasnt worth it anyway. it just added more debts. it is all luck…or connections.
@Topu,
I have to agree most of the people I know that are where they are since graduating has largely been down to family connections or just dump luck. I’ve been unemployed for almost 8 months now. I’m at a point where I have simply given up now. When you have been unemployed for so long people’s perception of you changes. For the first few months you get the usual sympathy of “don’t worry something will come up soon, you’ll see it will all be rainbows and kittens in a few weeks time”. After 3/4 months the attitude changes to “still not got a job then?”. After 6 months you just get darting glares of “why are you being so lazy just get a job any job.” Someone told me the other day when I was in quite a fragile mood to “stop feeling sorry for myself, get out of the house and get a job.” In a rare moment of fighting back I said oh great you’re offering me a job are you? What do you need to do and how soon can I start?
I’m 25 now and feel it’s pretty much over in terms of a career. The older you get the harder it is for anyone to take you seriously. I’ve just accepted I’m not worth a great deal to the market place. Today degrees are next to irrelevant unless they are professional qualifications in medicine, nursing or law then again law doesn’t always get you very far now due to the number of graduates doing law conversions. I loved my time at uni so don’t regret going but it pressed my face against the window of a world I shall never get to live in. Now almost 2 years out of uni I’ve spent all of it in minimum wage zero hours contracts or unemployed. Don’t mistake this for self pity but I get fed up with older generations now calling mine the entitlement generation referring to us as lazy and wanting everything for nothing. This from a generation that could buy a house on the wages of unskilled labour at 21.
What have you been doing in those eight months Kevin in order to get taken seriously by employers?
I am not saying that volunteering is a panacea but I would not have got the interview I am going to tomorrow without the experience I’ve gained in a voluntary role. I’m not saying volunteering eliminates the stigma of unemployment but in my view lessens it.
It won’t be easy. Long term unemployment is very difficult to break out of. Some people on here don’t get that.
David, I wish you well in your interview.
I take it yo hadn’t seen my posts from previous threads. Basically I was made redundant last June and after a number of friends lost their lives to suicide I started to suffer badly with depression. I managed to pick up a temp job which lasted until October but leaving that I was badly assaulted and ended being told by the doctor I was medically unfit to work because I was suffering so badly from depression I made an attempt on my own life. I couldn’t leave the house alone until February I was left beyond frightened to be on my own or to leave the house. I just couldn’t manage.
Since February things have fractionally improved in that I can leave the house alone now but living where I live at the minute in the middle of the countryside I am not exactly swimming in opportunities. The only thing I’ve really done is since March I have been working with a major broadcaster as part of their “young people’s views” on the referendum campaign. They call upon you to go on radio programmes, tv spots etc I was in two minds to do it or not but thankfully they haven’t called on me to do a great deal beyond post a few things on facebook which has been an easy enough task. Other than that it has just been under the constant watch of doctors, hospital visits and therapy.
Out of interest what so of job is your interview for? I know it sounds silly but I have lost all confidence with everything. I just have no self belief any more. I know I’m not exactly old and people say your twenties are for experimenting with different jobs to see if you click with something when you don’t know what you want to do but I feel old and I’m frightened.
My only consolation has been I know several people from uni that graduated with me that went on to do masters degrees that haven’t managed to find a job since leaving in September.
Well, I feel sick right now. I found out some information which has basically confirmed what I already know, that is, it is about WHO you know and WHERE you go.
Unless you have done an undergrad or masters at oxford, cambridge, lse, imperial, ucl or warwick, FORGET about a high flying career.
I knew my neighbours were successful because their children went to private school, but reading their linkedin profiles today made me feel ill.
Son went to oxford (MA history), did 4 years work exp in his dads firm (deloite), then did the usual chartered accountancy and now works as an associate at Exponent private equity (making six figures I assume???). Basically, it doesn’t matter if you did a bullshit degree like history, or got a 2:1, no. It matters that he went to Oxford and got relevent work experience through his father. Probably had a “Gap Yah” in Borneo as well.
The daughter went to Cambridge (again, MA History) and became a teacher. But now works for teachfirst, I assume in management.
I feel a bit sick because they were my neighbours for 15 years, but we obviously live in different worlds. I just didn’t realise how different.
I estimate I am around 3 years behind my most successfull peers. I need internships, credentials from a top uni and contacts, and lots of them.
A few weeks ago I was happy to get a temp job after being unemployed for so long, now I feel like a chump. I am picking up the crumbs.
It could be worse, but then again maybe not. I get occasional phone calls for so called “graduate” positions but at least two of them have been out to scam me (FDM and DeVere). The others are without fail in recruitment consultancy, product management or sometimes IT.
I hate the class system in this country. I hate the fact that I was smart enough to go to Oxbridge but never had any confidence because I went to some of the worst schools in the country (24% A*-C last year I attended). I could go for a masters, but without funding I am shit out of luck and they maybe forgo it anyway and focus on my undergrad (physics, but not an elite school).
How do I make it? I can only see unpaid interships as the option.
@ Rich
I agree in part. I feel completely the same in that I’m behind and wont catch up. You try not to compare yourself to others but you can’t help it.
I do want to point out though that I know several people who did STEM courses who have been unemployed or under employed despite doing them at the best uni’s. I know a woman who did an MA at Cambridge and ended up working in admin in a back office.
I went to a top uni and I saw how internships and so on were traded like sweets between people with well to do parents. It’s a form of currency and I found myself lacking in that. That said I did unpaid internships during holidays while I was at uni but still found them to be lacking in any influence in getting a graduate job at all
Really? Were the internships in a sector you want to work in? (i.e relevent)?
Like you say, rich parents yada yada, if you got contacts then life is much easier.
I’ve posted about this a few months ago, but I want to mention it again as it’s a good example. There was someone from my course who didn’t do great and also got mediocre A levels. Despite this, they got a job with Nanoco technologies in Manchester right after graduating, as their project supervisor works there. Me? My applictions were blanked. In my project I learnt a technique called “chemical vapor deposition” which they use to deposit graphene (the so called ‘wonder’ material). They do that in this company. My work got published and I got a first. I couldn’t be a better fit. The result? Completely snubbed and the HR people never once replied to me.
I actually want to punch HR people, but I’ll bring that up with my doctor.
Life shouldn’t be like this. Cameron said there will be jobs for those who want it, but 90% of agency work is in call centres. I get tired of sitting in the house all day. My parents are in their late 60s and I know I am a burden and a constant source of worry. So I feel worthless AND guilty at the same time.
Apart from temp work, I stopped applying for jobs 6 months ago. I will let recruiters do the work for me and wait for a few companies to recruit that I have had my eye on.
On my night shift I estimate 90% of the graduates are foreign nationals. On one side I have a guy from France who graduated from hudderfield in business management and on the other I have a girl from Nigeria who graduated from Keele in accounting and economics. Most of them work two jobs (the other in a call centre). This country is not only producing 100s of thousands of graduates, we are also bringing them over from Africa. Leaving the EU will do squat. UK PLC is on a slipperly slope where millions are scrambling for work, and it is about who you know and lucritive connections which make all the difference. Migrants are years ahead of young people here. They know that they have to go where the work is, so they come to the UK to earn a minimum wage, but it’s still more than they get in Somalia or Nigeria. When it gets cool here, they go to France or Germany for the Autumn and work there. English Kids don’t have this initiative or know-how. We get spoon fed useless A levels and don’t get tauht how to communicate, market outselves or bullshit (still learning). I admit myself that it is a daunting thought to study or work abroad, but the landscape has changed and I would probably be employed right now if I lived in Germany. My advice to unemployed graduates – look beyond the UK and get creative. A TEFL is better than sitting on your arse like I have.
No my work experience isn’t exactly relevant but then again I’m not sure what I want to do which is a problem. My attitude then was some work experience was better than nothing at all so I took what ever I could and what ever was offered. Just to show I wasn’t spending the summers slacking off. I thought it showed initiative and I might at least be able to bull my way through difficult questions with “well when I worked at x we have a similar etc”.
I do agree though connections and luck are everything. This is especially true if it is a family connection because they will simply fight harder to help you, you might not find that with someone you yet and have kept in vague contact with. For example I know a guy who is the same age as me, graduated the same year as me and is a senior marketing consultant for a London consultancy firm and flies to board meetings in new york and LA on a regular basis. How did he get to such a position so quickly and easily with a degree in Game Design from a crap metropolitan university? His uncle is the CEO of the company. It isn’t right and it certainly isn’t fair.
I’ve been a long time poster on here using various names and – well – a company just made me a job offer!!! I’m in a state of shock to be honest. I’ll post further when I’ve had a chance to collect my thoughts but the humiliation is over. I am going to have a salary of £20,000. Perhaps not my “dream job” but the self-respect that comes with being able to answer questions like “and what is it you do?” – well who can put a price on that?
Congrats David, that’s great news. Indeed, the chance for independence is priceless and it’s something I think will change my life. Are you going to move out?
@Kevin, well you’ve done nothing wrong. They go on about transferrable skills and like you I have worked a few different jobs.
The immediate goals in terms of getting some of the trappings of adulthood is buying some clothing (I haven’t bought new clothing for a long time…) and passing the driving test that I’ve failed twice. Moving out is something I can start to think about. I can also start to think about growing my bank account — a savings nest egg allows you to get through the bad times.
Well this will be my last post on Graduate Fog. What became long-term unemployment has come to an end. Below is 900+ words where I have tried to condense everything I’ve learnt from this experience in the hope those still looking might gain something from it. The past year has completely changed my outlook on life and feel I’m a completely different person to the graduate that expected to walk onto a grad scheme. Best of luck to everyone and here are my parting thoughts:
1)There is a Bias Against Hiring the Unemployed: There is a bias against hiring the unemployed that sets in fairly quickly following a job loss. You are much more marketable as a candidate when you already have a job. I was surprised at how quickly being unemployed became an issue at interviews even during a recession when many qualified people found themselves out of work. The quicker you can find a job the better. People can be very judgmental.
2)A CV gap is unacceptable: However legitimate a reason for a ‘gap’ employers can draw the wrong conclusion. A CV gap puts you on the defensive and in my experience employers can focus on a gap rather than what you want them to focus on which is how you meet the job description. It is important to fill that gap and while volunteering isn’t a cure all it at least shows employers you want to work. I believe an unpaid internship is better than a gap on the CV.
3)Volunteering can help: Volunteering can help in terms of keeping you to a routine and providing references but know when to move on. There are organisations that are quite happy for the endless free labour they get from volunteers and I think at times I put far too much effort into trying to get a job with the organisation I was volunteering with something that was never going to happen.
4)There is a Stigma Attached to being unemployed: There is a stigma to unemployment that extends far beyond the employment arena — many private landlords will not accept housing benefit so not having a job can also risk the roof over your head. It prevents you from having a social life or anything resembling one. It makes introducing yourself to new people difficult. How do you answer ‘and what is it you do?’. Again something voluntary that gives you a sense of identity is important.
5)The value of a degree has been diminished: I had AAA at A-level and a First from a Russell Group University. When I wasn’t chasing a degree I did lots of SU stuff that was good CV candy. When I graduated it all meant very little. Grades were practically worthless in an economy where experience trumped everything else. I’m not convinced a Masters is the answer as it can risk you being seen as further “overqualified”. Don’t get suckered into spending £10k on a Masters. The goalposts have moved and experience is what matters.
6)In a recession employers are not willing to train: I met an awfully high number of companies who seemed to consider it to be the role of someone else to meet the training costs of their entry level employees. The days of on-the-job training seem to be gone. Graduating into a recession was pretty brutal. It is important to be CV building when the economy is good to prepare as best as you can for the bad times. If I’d done more of this perhaps I would have coped with recession better?
7)In a job search you may meet rude people: In a hirers’ market employers can be as rude as they want. I met pleasant hiring managers but I also met some people who were incredibly rude. The reality is that if you have scores of qualified candidate employers can be as rude as they want. You just have to learn to accept that and move on to the next one.
8)You may learn who your friends are: Anyone can be friends during the good times but you only learn during the tough times who your true friends are. Without going into too much detail there was one person in a position to help me that didn’t and they are no longer in my life.
9)It is important to save for rainy day: If you’ve got savings buying a new suit for an upcoming interview isn’t a problem. If you’ve not been saving them a sudden job loss than be very scary. In retrospect perhaps as a family we could have spent a bit less on certain things during the boom years of the early 2000s.
10)Interviewing is about practice: Interviewing is a bit of a game and eventually you can quite good at answering the questions. What is your greatest weakness? Given an example of conflict in a team? When you’ve failed at something? Stuff designed to trip you up. I wasn’t great at these questions to begin with but got better at them.
11)There is no magic bullet: You can take what some might call a “survival job” to ride out the recession (if you manage to surmount “overqualified”) but then there is a danger you won’t be able to get back into your career afterwards. Sometimes there is no easy option and you just have to make the best out of the hand you are dealt.
12)Ultimately it is up to you: You can blame the economy or the Government but ultimately the only person that can change your situation is you. I used to volunteer at a job club and you would see some people start to embrace victimhood after a while blaming DWP/their former employer/everyone but themselves. It isn’t the kind of mentality that gets you anywhere.
13)You may have to lower your sights: In retrospect I spent far too long trying to get into some very competitive industries under the mistaken belief that I was something special. This was a mistake.
So long everyone…
@ David I know you said that you wont post here again but I would be very interested to hear when it was that you graduated and what you studied. You say you graduated during the recession which could put you back as far as 2008. I would like to say something on friendship and this maybe a lengthy post but bare with me if you will because I think that it could be a value lesson. I’d like to talk about 4 people in particular. I have found that people I once considered to be exceptionally important people in my life are no longer in it. People I once regarded as my closest friend but in 12 months I no long consider them friends.
Person A was a casual acquaintance, we’d met at functions but I wouldn’t call him a friend as such because he was much older than myself. He messaged me when I mentioned I was going through a rough patch. He told me that he had been there and he just talked to me. He invited me to his house for a weekend to get away from things and talk things through. It helped a bit but this was back in January when my grandmother passed away. We don’t speak as frequently but he still messages every now and then to see how I am. That is a friend.
Person B was a person just from facebook that I’d never met but posted something when a mutual friend died and we got to messaging and skyping. I had a very bad spell of depression at Christmas, the idea of another year was just too much to bare. I was suicidal new year’s eve and he cancelled his plans to go out just to sit with me over skype and talk to me. That was a friend.
Person C was a person I considered a close friend. She was going through depression at the same time as me but she was working in America. Eventually she came home and confessed to me that she had tried to kill herself when she got back. We spoke endlessly but in February she just stopped replying to my messages. Ghosting is the hardest thing to go through. You immediately suspect that they have been in an accident or are hurt. You don’t automatically assume that a friend would want to hurt you like that. This person no longer gets the privilege of my friendship.
Person D, the hardest blow to take of all. My best friend from day 1 of meeting almost 5 years ago at university. We did so much together and never went more than a week or some without calls, texts, skype etc. I mentioned to her what I was going through and how I was feeling in September. That was the last I heard from her. This is a person who once called me crying at 4:30am because she felt so low because I was the only person she wanted to talk to. For some reason she kept me on facebook but just never replied to another message. That was the only way I knew she was still alive.
To me it will always be an act of extraordinary cruelty to do that to someone especially when you have been such a loyal friend. I get that people don’t want to do a day’s work to come home to comfort someone going through hell but to do that to a friend is beyond anything I can imagine doing to someone. Maybe that is just me, maybe I am too kind to people or give people to much credit as basic creatures of good. I hope no one else goes through what I have been through and am still going through. However I now think of myself as fortunate in some way. My crisis could have been worse and happened at a worse time later on down the road in my life but those people would have abandoned me then, I’m glad they abandoned me now before those friendships went on.
I just finished my MSc last week from Stockholm University. It was a two year course and with the cost of my (undergrad) student loan, my PCDL and overdraft etc, I am about £44,000 in debt.
I’m scared. I’m back living in a tiny town in the English Midlands, there’s no graduate jobs here, I can’t afford to move.
Urgh
Postgraduate loan is a ponzi scheme – you’ll be repaying double on your student loan repayments as a result.
I thought study was free in Sweden?
It’s not the postgraduate loan but the old PCDL offered by Co-op bank. Not that it’s much better. 9.9% interest starting in the autumn.
Yup, study is free but cost of living in Stockholm for two years was not. And despite the myth, there are no jobs out there for native English speakers as all the Swedes speak English near fluently so no need for ESL tutors etc
Ah right, what did you study?
I’d go the whole hog and teach English in Asia… there must be loads of us out there. I saw ads for physics teachers in Almaty… somewhere I’d love to visit.
I’ve decided this will be my last post here. I’ve made a decision about what I intend to do and I don’t want to publish it here to drag down the purpose of this line of conversation.
@Tanya please delete all my other comments here. I really wasn’t worth the fuss.
Did say I wouldn’t post here anymore but it is now the first week of my new job. I’ve earnt enough money today to buy THREE pairs of work trousers from Marks and Spencer. I’ve earnt the equivalent of two weeks dole money in the last three days. Although I have no experience of being released from prison that is the only analogy I can think of. It is odd to one moment not be in a position to consider a purchase of several pairs of trousers and suddenly I now can. To those still looking for work – keep going – the new freedoms that a wage open up are wonderful.
@David – This is such fantastic news – well done!
A regular wage is certainly a wonderful thing, especially when you’ve become used to living hand to mouth, whether on the dole or doing zero hours work, bits of cash-in-hand or freelance work, or unpaid or low paid internships (situations well summed up as ‘precarious’ work).
It’s not just about being able to afford stuff though, is it? I’ve always thought that financial reward (ie pay) is also important because it represents the fact that your contribution is quite literally WORTH something. That is one reason I feel so strongly about unpaid work being a bad thing. It reinforces the message that your labour is worth nothing (NOT TRUE! But a corrosive belief to continually underline). It’s not just about the money, it’s about what the money represents – approval that a person’s work has VALUE. Do others agree?
Yes I get what you mean. Someone thinks my labour has economic value — they consider it worth something. That feels nice. That said I would not have got this role without experience gained in an unpaid voluntary position that very much felt like a job. I would not have had the examples to give at interview. That is the reality.
One week of work is broadly equal to one month of dole money so that is taking some getting used to. My purchase of trousers means I now have sufficient work clothing. The £19.50 trousers were the cheapest available but they are still smart. It is such a mundane purchase but would have swallowed but nearly a week of JSA previously.
Hi all,
If you haven’t seen it, we’re having a good discussion today about the reality of being a graduate going back to live with your parents to save money after uni. Swing by and share your views, if you have a minute!
https://graduatefog.co.uk/2016/4660/half-of-new-graduates-still-live-with-parents/
I’ve not commented on here for a while but I’ve had a job offer. Starts after Xmas.
Means a lot to me to be working back in London. There is a social aspect to being in work that people take for granted. The after-work drinks of a Friday night. I’ve lost touch with uni friends because I’ve not been part of that scene. Obviously money is going to be good as well.
Unemployment hasn’t been great for my health so I am looking forward to a bit of rest for a few weeks before joining the commuting masses. I don’t imagine anyone has looked forward to reading the Metro on the tube of a Monday morning so much as I am.
I’ve been sleeping much better for the last few days. It feels like things are looking a bit more positive in my life. The stigma of unemployment is utterly terrifying.
I would not have got the job offer without voluntary work but to echo one of the commenters above the voluntary work doesn’t eliminate unemployment stigma completely. I still feel there is still a sense that some employers think ‘if they are that good why are they not being paid? How are they surviving?’
I’ve developed a bit of a complex. The most painful moments in my job search were the employers that immediately zoned in on the fact that I was unemployed. Never mind what skills I would bring to the role. How do you respond to an employer that says “So you’ve been unemployed for x months?”.
The job I’ve got requires a skill that I think can only be obtained in a voluntary capacity first. Say you want to be a teaching assistant and want to work in a school. Who is going to employ you without previous experience in that role. Voluntary work is essential sometimes.
I had my first pay packet on Friday in the new job. How novel that an employer values my labour!
A few thoughts from the world of employment:
1) Being back in the world of employment It is easy to see how employers discriminate against those without jobs. Every day I am waking up at 6.00am and getting home about 6.30pm. Each day is full of activity. If I am the hiring manager it is hard to imagine what someone unemployed has filled their weeks with?
2) I fear being unemployed again. It changes your spending habits. I am not splurging my pay packet. I’m still buying clothes in Asda of all places because I have no idea when I might be on the job market again.
3) Unemployment is humbling. I heard someone moaning about their job on the DLR and wanted to tell him how lucky he was to be in work. Try surviving on JSA! I wake up every morning feeling lucky to be going to work. I wonder how long that feeling will last.
4) One of the worst aspects of unemployment was how it changes friendships. I wasn’t being invited to after work drinks in London because I wasn’t working! Someone who was nowhere to be seen when I was unemployed added me on Facebook this week. I can’t help but think what use is a friendship that only works during the ‘good’ times. I’m not even sure I want to rekindle certain friendships now. Things have moved on.
5) A pay packet makes me feel a bit of a mug for volunteering for so long. I was working just as hard in a voluntary role as I am now. Sure it helped me get this paid one but I stayed there far too long after it was clear I was just being used as free labour. In fact, maybe working so hard was part of the problem. Why pay for something you can get for free?
I’ve been in my job exactly a month now.
Now that I am employed it is interesting to see the recruiting process from the other side.
At my workplace, a candidate is seen as “recruitable” if they are basically doing the same job already. The idea of investing training in a candidate doesn’t seem to be a thing. In the absence of experience, you are considered “unrecruitable”.
The number of times I have heard. “They were nice but we couldn’t hire them. They would need training in x”
What type of experience are we talking here? I can understand if a company wants an experienced python programmer, or a qualified accountant, but beyond that I fail to see the bigger picture. A lot of people are incompetent in their work and a hungry graduate could easily take their place.
I’ve not posted on Graduate Fog much recently but long-time readers may remember me. I was the guy that didn’t have the money for a suit for an interview for an unpaid internship. Things have improved a bit since then. For the last eight months I’ve been too busy working. Current bank balance is £7,372.30. On the date that I became employed it was £1,069.89. So I am up £6,302.41. It might be gauche to talk about how much money you have but when you have been used to JSA payments of £73.10 each pay packet is life changing. I bought a suit recently in M&S and didn’t think twice about it!
I am in a role that I am comfortable in and enjoy. One snag unfortunately. The role is maternity cover and realistically I am not going to be round for much longer. I realise now that there is a world of difference between secure employment and the kind of insecure position I am in. The role is a useful foothold into the jobs market but nothing more.
I don’t feel like I can really put everything behind me until I am in secure employment. Interview Wednesday. So much riding on it.
Haven’t posted on here for a while but back in 2015 I was the subject of this tweet:
https://twitter.com/GraduateFog/status/554999234890833923
The intern who couldn’t afford a suit for an unpaid internship! I didn’t get the role and I remember that really dented my confidence — how do you lower your sights after a rejection for an unpaid internship? Fast forward four years and I now have several years of continuous employment under my belt and feel I can finally draw a line under what was easily the most challenging period of my life.
My thoughts looking back:
1. It is important to plan for a ‘rainy day’
At some point in the future there will be another recession and it is my responsibility and mine alone to prepare as best I can by a) saving as much money as possible and b) positioning myself in the jobs market as best I can by continually improving my CV. Even with the best preparation I still might be unlucky and be in the wrong place at the wrong time. There are posts on this site where I blame the Tories, DWP, employers et al. What good did it do? I am now far better prepared for any economic downturn than I was back in 2014/15.
2. It Goes Beyond Internships
Today unpaid internships seem to me but a small part of a wider intergenerational conflict. Since I graduated the electorate has become even more divided by age. I simply have nothing in common with a Baby Boomer who benefited from right-to-buy and final salary pensions. I got tuition fees and Universal Credit. I’m not sure such a pronounced divide in British politics is all that healthy.
I’ve saved a 20k deposit living at home but home ownership south of Watford Gap still does not feel that realistic. I feel like I can only stay living down south [and therefore access London’s jobs market] with assistance from BOMAD. Without that I am looking at living somewhere like Liverpool or Manchester in a few years.
3. Unpaid work isn’t respected
While unemployed I gave hundreds of hours of my life to a charity organisation hoping that it would lead to a paid role. It did not — at least not with the organisation in question although it helped me get a paid role elsewhere. I realise now that organisations that are getting free labour are unsurprisingly happy with that arrangement. In retrospect I realise that I was little more than free labour and allowed this situation to continue for far too long. If you don’t respect yourself how can you expect others to?
4. The “Masters top-up” has definitely become a thing.
In retrospect there were certain areas of employment it was near impossible to access without a Masters. One my peers from University who also got a First for his undergraduate degree stayed on to do a Masters. This Social Research Methods MSc cost £8,500 per year and meant that he was taken seriously within the London policy bubble. I found it impossible to access even a poorly remunerated internship to get a foot in the door. For me £8,500 is a car or part of a house deposit. I cannot envisage any situation where I would be willing to spend that much on further study. In the middle of a recession it was a non-starter. I wasted time knocking on doors that were never going to open.
5. Life Changes
I’m not the same person I was the day I walked across the graduation stage and that is ok.
I cringe now at the hours I spent engaged in student politics something that seems so juvenile today. All this change is normal. There was a time when I yearned for lost friendships. I would have been so easy to go for the “delayed adulthood” option of further study. In a way I am proud that I went to sign on the dole because some of my friends now bitterly regret the cost of their Masters degree now that they are getting to a point in life when home ownership and settling down are a priority.