CAREERS SERVICES SIDE WITH EMPLOYERS OVER STUDENTS
*Graduate Fog exclusive!*
Why are university careers services doing so little to fight the problem of unpaid internships?
Why do only 10% of graduates know that unpaid internships are illegal? And why are many universities still advertising unpaid internships — legitimising the practice and undermining the work of those of us who are trying to raise awareness about the issue?
These questions have been bugging me for months. Naively, I assumed the answer lay with the careers services’ institutionalised incompetence (regular readers will know I’m not a big fan). But now it seems that the real reason could be far more sinister.
A senior figure in the world of university careers advice has told me that many universities are continuing to promote illegal unpaid internships to their students and graduates — and failing to inform you about your rights as interns — because they are desperate to maintain their relationships with the companies that offer these ‘opportunities’ so that their institutions will emerge favourably in the university league tables. In many cases, universities are counting graduates doing unpaid internships as ’employed’ in their destination statistics.
This is admission is shocking — and proves that many universities are putting their own agenda ahead of informing you, their students and graduates, about your rights as you enter the world of work.
The source said that universities were increasingly concerned about keeping their ‘success rates’ high and knew that if they refused to advertise an prestigious unpaid internship — at a political think tank, for example — their competitors would have no such scruples and one of their graduates would bag the position instead.
Unpaid internships are THE big issue for anybody graduating in 2011 — and I feel strongly that university careers advisers are perfectly placed to help spread the message about interns’ rights to pay. Careers services are also perfectly placed to block companies that seek to exploit interns from gaining access to their students and graduates.
Yes, these companies can pursue candidates for their internships through other means (websites like w4mp and Gorkana will happily advertise all manner of dodgy internships) — but it would be a start. It would also help them deliver a consistent message to their students and graduates that unpaid internships are illegal and unethical.
The source also said that universities feel pressure from their students and graduates to advertise the unpaid internships — as these offer the best (and often the only) route into competitive industries such as politics, media and charity. So they continue to promote them even though they know they break the law — and exclude those graduates who can’t afford to work for free.
By continuing to promote unpaid internships to their students and graduates, university careers advisers are becoming part of the problem — not the solution — of graduate unemployment. They are confusing young people about the legal issues — and effectively assisting exploitative employers in recruiting for illegal positions.
They can hardly claim that they are not aware of the facts — or how they should be behaving.
For many months now, the Association of Graduate Careers Advisory Services (AGCAS) has been extremely supportive of interns’ rights to pay — and very clear in advising its members not to assist organisations which seek to break the law by recruiting graduates without paying them for their work. In a letter to the Guardian in August 2010, AGCAS director Martin Pennington wrote:
“Unpaid internships are not just exploitative of individuals but also restrict social mobility, as they are disproportionately difficult for graduates from lower socio-economic groups to take up, and reduce the number of entry level jobs for graduates and others. Current advice from AGCAS to its members is that they shouldn’t advertise or broker internships that contravene legislation.”
Not all universities are guilty of this. The University of London’s careers service — headed by AGCAS President Anne-Marie Martin — has a policy of not advertising unpaid internships, and they stick to it. She told Graduate Fog that the source I had spoken to “sums up the dilemmas faced by careers services very well” — but reminded AGCAS members that the official advice had not changed and they were “not to advertise any vacancy that breaks the law.”
Likewise, Liverpool University refuses to help employers to exploit its students and graduates. Head of Careers and Employability Paul Redmond told Graduate Fog:
“I can’t comment on other universities — it’s not my place to pass judgement on other organisations – but at Liverpool we took the decision to only handle paid internships because a) our grads are excellent quality; b) unpaid interns damage all earnings; c) going to work costs money, so unpaid actually means you pay for the experience; d) lack of clarity about legal implications. There’s also the social equity issue — who can actually afford to work for nothing?
“This policy hasn’t had any adverse effects whatsoever on our recruitment stats or on our relationships with employers. In fact, last year, we advertised over 70 per cent more job vacancies than in 2010.”
Redmond added that any university advertising unpaid internships would find it, “a completely self-defeating ‘race to the bottom’ strategy and one which ultimately risks reducing salaries for all graduates.” He also said the message from AGCAS “couldn’t be more clear.”
However, it appears that AGCAS’s members are continuing to flout this advice. In their increasing desperation to keep recruiters on-side, they are failing their duty towards the students and graduates — who wrongly assume that they have their best interests at heart.
*Are you shocked by these revelations?
Should universities be sucking up to those who exploit their interns – or doing more to inform students and graduates about their rights and the battle against unpaid internships? Should unis be allowed to count graduates working as unpaid interns as ’employed’ – or does it distorted the picture that’s presented to prospective students?
In my recent internship at a publishing company, I discovered that an ongoing, paid role is now being filled by monthly interns. Its really frustrating because when I do an intern I look out for whether there might be a chance for a job at the end. But there is no chance of that if me, the intern is the precise reason why they are not advertising for an ongoing, full-time position. They are getting the job done for free!
In a letter to the Guardian in August 2010, AGCAS director Martin Pennington wrote:
Understood, but what’s he saying now?
Main failings of this article:
1) You fail to cite any universities who either advertise any unpaid internships or supposedly fiddle their graduate employment figures.
2) The entire piece is based on just one anonymous source. Without quotes.
I support paid internships – especially in industries such as mine (PR) where it’s not breaking the bank to pay travel fees and a little extra to an intern looking to learn from us.
The same should apply for the financial services sector, retail and in fact any through-and-through commercial sector.
But if you are reading environmental science for example and would like to get some experience working at say, a Wildlife Trust property, National Parks or the like, then you should not expect to be paid. The experience you get at these organisations is fantastic, but you’re essentially treated as a volunteer and rightly so.
This groundswell of students demanding payment for internships should not jeopordise 3rd sector organisations and similar entities offering opportunities to learners.
@Simon Barker
1) Please see past pieces I have written about this, including the University of Greenwich. Cambridge and Durham University also advertise unpaid internships. The University of Westminster helps to promote Inspiring Interns, the highly controversial recruitment company who pay their interns less than the National Minimum Wage: http://www.inspiringinterns.com/get-inspired/ (scroll down to Ben Tolfree’s interview). Perhaps other Foggers would like to confirm that their university advertised unpaid internships to them?
2) My anonymous source is extremely senior, which is why s/he cannot be named. S/he knows this piece is being published and was happy with everything in it. Anne-Marie Martin – President of AGCAS – is an even more senior figure, and she says has confirmed that this is happening. Also, I never said Graduate Fog was the Guardian. This is a blog, not a news wire.
@John Brown
I agree that paid internships are a good thing – but I disagree with your exemption for organisations in the charity sector and have written about this extensively, including this piece for the Guardian:
Are charities unpaid interns really volunteers?
In my view, an awful lot of charities are exploiting a loophole in the law designed to protect true volunteering. They are using it to gain an unlimited amount of admin support staff in the headquarters. These are not true volunteers – they are young people hoping to start a career in the charity sector. That they are expected to work for free (when everyone knows you can’t LIVE for free) is outrageous. More senior members of these charities aren’t expected to prove their dedication to the cause by working for nothing – so why should younger workers? It’s not reasonable – and it’s not fair.
@ Tanya,
whilst you maintain that this is a blog and perhaps therefore its not to be taken literally, its easy to see why readers regard it as hard journalism.
1. You advertise yourself as a journalist – see “About Tanya De Grunwald.”
2. The piece itself doesn’t occur ONLY on the blog part of your website (the bit relating to blogging) but its also prominent on the home page, where its easily confused with…
3. “You’ve just discovered Graduate Fog, the only graduate careers advice website that’s actually helpful” – thus indicating that careers advice (and not blog opinion) is being offered.
Can’t help thinking its not entirely the reader’s fault for believing that the article was serious journalism.
I had a really bad experience as an ‘intern’ at a ‘Human Rights Charity’ who promised me 6 months development as a media officer. I moved to the city to do the internship and on my first day i was given a desk piled high with newspapers and told to sort through them before i got to my desk. The whole six months I was basically an office administrator. I tried complaining but they said Im lucky to have this position, and i genuinely thought i was. Fresh out of University i thought this is what i had to endure to get in to the charity sector.
Charities should be more accountable in providing internships.
Newsflash – The careers dept at Oxford Uni says they do not advertise unpaid internships (well, of more than 4 months):
http://www.careers.ox.ac.uk/employers/advertising-vacancies/
Will Cambridge say the same? I have personally seen ads for unpaid internships on their website…
@Derrick
Sorry but I just don’t follow your logic! And I AM a journalist, but this is my blog! Other parts of the website include straight careers advice. Is anyone else having a problem understanding what Graduate Fog actually IS? It’s not something that’s ever come up before but I’m happy to look at it if others feel this is confusing too?
I have to say in principle I agree with Derrick regarding charity internships not being paid, they are different than other business and the whole point it to try and send as much of the money as possible to those who need it, I think if your looking for a charity internship you have to accept its unlikely to paid.
Sorry but I just don’t follow your logic! And I AM a journalist, but this is my blog!
Perhaps its not advisable to jumble it up on your homepage when you’ve got a dedicated blog tab? You manage to keep the debate tab to debates its logical and clearer to retain simple divisions.
Simple navigation is key and please try and take criticism in the positive spirit in which its offered.
@Tanya
I think we’re talking about completely different things. You’re referring to young workers and I’m referring to internships in the form of work experience – something a uni student would (SHOULD) be doing during the summer months whilst at university.
I agree, it’s outrageous to think that people are employed full time to provide ‘voluntary’ services. This is exploitation. But working for a couple of summer months at a charity firm or any similar organisation for free should be seen as a vital addition to a student’s CV upon graduation. Especially in a sector which is tightening purse strings and barriers to entry are becoming exceptionally difficult to hurdle.
Yes, sometimes you’re going to be doing nothing more than admin for free – and that is again not ideal. But in today’s society where the value of degrees has dropped significantly, that couple of months filing and filling up staplers for free, could be the difference between an interview and a shut door.
Anyone looking to ‘start their career’ by taking up an intern post, has, in all honesty, missed the boat by a long shot. Internships shouldn’t be something you consider after your studies, they should complement them in order to have a robust CV upon graduation to maximise your chances of getting a paid for job. Those that take an unpaid intern position after uni and then complain of exploitation are, in my humble opinion, need to be asked the question – why are you doing this now?
Look forward to your thoughts.
Sorry quick amend – outrageous that people should be employed long term and full-time for free – not just full time as most short term internships are full time.
Those that take an unpaid intern position after uni and then complain of exploitation are, in my humble opinion, need to be asked the question — why are you doing this now?
Because its being normalised by others who don’t see any harm in it? Simply ignoring or not participating in the problem wont make it go away, arguably that’s whats caused the current explosion of this type of work and given rise to the perception that its ‘acceptable’ and ‘a rite of passage’.
@Derrick –
I acknowledge the problem.
My point is that those that went to university shouldn’t find themselves in a position where they’re having to get work experience after graduating as a way to climb the first rung of the career ladder. Invest in work experience when it’s affordable and you can perhaps take a hit on your wallet, i.e. when you have either support from the government, parents etc. and you should be on ‘rung number two’ by the time you graduate and not have to flirt with dishonest and immoral internships.
@john brown The charity internship was full time internship for 6 months. You say ‘ I agree, it’s outrageous to think that people are employed full time to provide ‘voluntary’ services. This is exploitation’.
If you believe its outrageous that companies do this, then so to is it outrageous that charities do it. How do you expect people to live?!
Students do not have the time to do an unpaid full time or even partime internship if they need money to support themselves which is why i myself waited until I graduated.
Also charity internships are very competitive, gradtuates who apply for them have more than likely done alot of extra curricular work throughout there studdies. I myself set up my own volunteering project abroad and volunteered for numerous charities throught my university life. I also worked 25 hours a week through university to make ends meet.
I therefore dont think its much to ask for charities to provide adequate training and support and provide experiences for individuals which prepare them for the world of work. I am not saying charities should pay their interns but if they are asking for a commitment, they need to invest and support these volunteers appropriately
Newflash – now the University of Westminster says they don’t advertise unpaid internships…
@ John Brown
In my experience of running Graduate Fog, there are comparatively few internships which involve the kind of work you describe. More and more are basically proper jobs (usually admin support roles), which interns are expected to do for nothing, simply because they’ve slapped the label ‘internship’ on them.
I would call what you’ve described ‘work experience’, the kind of thing you do for a week when you’re 16, just to get a feel for what it’s like working in an office. In reality, the value you’re adding is close to zero – it’s more like work shadowing, and they give you a bit of filing, post sorting etc, to pass the time.
I’m pushed for time today so can’t go into depth about my feelings on charity internships. I actually feel there is clear difference between volunteering and ‘interning’ – it’s all about whether it’s full-time and whether you’re doing it for the love of it or because you hope it will lead to paid work in the future. Unfortunately, the charity world seems to think that the loophole in the law gives it the right to unlimited admin support, courtesy of the tens of thousands of graduates who are desperate to start a career in the charity sector – which I feel is exploitation. Did you read the Guardian piece I wrote?
@Derrick
“Those that take an unpaid intern position after uni and then complain of exploitation are, in my humble opinion, need to be asked the question — why are you doing this now?”
It is entirely justifiable to object to the system while still having to live within the circumstances that are handed out. If you have no choice but to play by the rules that are given you (“you must take an unpaid internship to further your career”) that does not mean that you cannot object to the game itself. Can’t see why that is hard to understand.
Apologies, previous comment should have been addressed @John Brown.
@Tanya
“This is a bog, not a news wire.”
In typo veritas?
Ha ha, thanks for pointing that out – now corrected!
Counting graduates in voluntary/unpaid work as employed isn’t a decision made at university level, it’s part of the DLHE survey, which is run by HESA, not by individual institutions:
http://www.hesa.ac.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1962&Itemid=233
I’m a university careers adviser, and I agree they shouldn’t be. But we don’t get a say in it.
It’s not just the sensationalism of this misinformed blog that concerns me, but once again the danger that students and graduates in urgent need could defer or avoid consulting their careers centres as a result.
I work for a university careers service, where my team actively vets jobs and placements for dodgy terms and conditions, such as illegal unpaid internships. I say illegal, because that is what they are. If you do regular work for non-charity employers who don’t pay National Minumum Wage, then they’re breaking the law. They’re also likely to alienate the very talent they’re employing.
Only brief periods of work experience or training can be considered exempt, and then only if they don’t have any contract, implied or otherwise. In practice, it’s not nearly as grey as it’s made out to be. Few, if any, universities would condone lengthy unpaid work experience. We’re in the business of making our graduates happy, not in exploiting them.
Sure, we’re not perfect, we make mistakes and let the odd bad vacancy slip through, but you and your readers would be surprised to know just how often we inform employers about the law and employee rights or turn away suspect vacancies.
We consider employer education about the value of our graduates as a key aim on which we spend a lot of time and money. It’s simply not in our interest, nor the interest of our graduates, that we sell them short, so we don’t … ever.
I know as an employer myself that if an intern isn’t worth NMW, then they’re not worth taking on at all, the costs of managing them are so much higher than their wage. In our experience, employers are generally blown away by the quality of graduate interns. We have one now, and she’s excellent.
I realise that positive views of graduate employment or university careers centres doesn’t sell papers or attract blog readers, but it’s imperative that our clients realise they can trust us to offer genuinely independent support.
I’d love to know the source of your claimed ‘proof’ that universities don’t care. I and my colleagues would give them short shrift indeed.
Sensationalism aside ; ) I think it’s important that this debate is opened up, not than shut down.
In my opinion, university careers services have already been given ample opportunity to produce a service that is of real value to students and graduates – and too few have successfully manage it. I am not here to provide a mouthpiece for them to continue to peddle the myth that they are doing a good job of helping graduates into work, when I don’t believe that’s the case. You already have Prospects to do that job.
I am glad to hear that you and your colleagues are so passionate about vetting the internships you offer, but sadly others are not.
Perhaps you would like to phone your colleagues at the University of Gloucestershire and ask them why they are busily promoting Inspiring Interns to their students?
http://resources.glos.ac.uk/departments/careers/students/find-employment-or-a-postgraduate-course/jobhunting/index.cfm
Also, you say:
…but sadly that isn’t true. Graduates are extremely vulnerable right now, and willing to put up with appalling treatment in order to gain the precious ‘experience’ they need in order to be considered for permanent, paid roles.
Which it’s why it’s all the more important that people like you continue to work in their best interests, not those of the employer – or yourselves.
But can they?? I don’t think you realise how damaging it is when so many of your colleagues are so clearly siding with employers who are breaking the law and exploiting graduates. When careers professionals are putting their own agenda first, their are being neither ‘independent’ nor ‘supportive’.
I am not prepared to reveal this, but rest assured that this person is an extremely well-known figure in the world of university careers advice, who is extremely well-informed about this issue – certainly more than you are.
I’ll ignore the jibe, but regardless how senior or well-informed you think your ‘source’ is, or may appear, I and my colleagues actually performing the tasks you mention, including those at most other institutions, would flatly, and dare I say passionately, contradict these claims. I suspect even your source would probably retract whatever they said given the chance.
Debate is useful, providing readers understand the balance of evidence. The problem is that opinion is just that: opinion. Right now, there’s far too much factually inaccurate and damaging negative opinion in the media, which urgently needs to be redressed to encourage students to take up the services on offer.
Yes, unpaid internships are a big deal, which is precisely why AGCAS, NASES and the NUS have been working with universities on new policy advice. Far from colluding with these employers, we see ourselves at the forefront of active measures against unpaid internships.
Yes, graduates are vulnerable, which is why our professional newsgroups buzz with shared reports of shady employment practices to avoid. I received one just this morning from a colleague elsewhere.
Careers centres are bending over backwards to avoid dodgy employers. The awkward challenge we face is to do this in the context of a shrinking and globalised employers’ market where we simply can’t guarantee that every vacancy is kosher. ‘Teaching to fish’ is our motto, so to that extent thanks for the publicity.
Your specific reference to Inspiring Interns appears invalid, since their FAQ clearly states that “Internships that fall under the National Minimum Wage act are paid, as are all internships that last longer than three months.” If you have evidence that this is incorrect, then we’d gladly share this with our professional colleagues via the AGCAS and NASES networks and appropriate action would be taken.
We can and do ignore requests from agencies clearly breaking these terms, and our professional networks quickly spread word of concerning employers. No, we’re not perfect. Yes, we are strapped for resource. We’re also limited by the same prevailing market conditions which graduates face, but we do everything we can (such as responding to blogs) to inform students of likely risks.
The fact is we can’t protect graduates from every dodgy employer. Indeed, like you we actively seek to educate them about the challenges they face, but to suggest we somehow have a tacit understanding with illegal employers is both factually and spiritually opposite to the truth.
By all means work with us to encourage graduates and help clean up the market, but please stop rubbishing our profession with over-generalised personal claims and misinformed opinion, just at the time when students and graduates most need to use our services.
Now … off to advertise another unpaid, unsafe, unethical opportunity with a lovely little local charity looking for a student to help publish a guidebook to our valley. I was just advising them on health & safety, but I doubt you’d believe me.
For more information about what sort of company Inspiring Interns is, you might like to read this:
Interns should ‘eat roadkill’ to save cash for unpaid placements
In the meantime, thank you for your detailed response. The extent to which your industry is in denial about what a terrible job you are doing never ceases to shock me.
Look, I am entitled to my opinion, and my opinion is based on having daily contact with some of the huge number of graduates that you are failing to help and inform.
And as for this change to policy about unpaid internships you mention, working with the NUS etc – can you tell me when you might be getting your act together to actually do this? Because I am yet to see any evidence of this. All I can see is yet another batch of 350,000 graduates heading into a situation of complete chaos.
All the while you are dawdling, hundreds of thousands of interns are emerging from expensive university degree courses and finding they can’t afford to even have a crack at breaking into their chosen industry, because they can’t work for free.
The university careers services should be shouting about this issue from the rooftops, not faffing about explaining to employers one by one why it’s not really terribly nice of them to be advertising unpaid internships.
Not on of you of you has approached the interns’ rights groups to ask how you can get involved and support the campaign – which I think is an utter disgrace.
The university careers services should be shouting about this issue from the rooftops, not faffing about explaining to employers one by one why it’s not really terribly nice of them to be advertising unpaid internships.
We do shout:
– Nationally: http://www.guardian.co.uk/higher-education-network/blog/2011/may/18/universities-cultivate-culture-fair-internships?intcmp=239
– In student media: http://www.cherwell.org/news/uk/2011/04/24/clegg-under-fire-over-unpaid-internships
– In trade press: http://www.pareto.co.uk/graduate_jobs/news/graduate_job_hunters_675.aspx
– And have been doing for some time: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8355714.stm
And that’s just Oxford.
Thanks Lucy. So can you explain to me why only 10% of graduates even know that unpaid internships are illegal?
And why are so many of your colleagues still promoting them to their students?
Perhaps I have high expectations, but I would like to walk into any careers services in the country and posters plastered all over it saying “Did you know that unpaid internships are illegal?” and “Free workshop tonight – everything you need to know about unpaid internships.” I want to see leaflets and banners and Facebook pages… You should be working with your university newspaper and contacting the interns rights groups to see how you can help support the campaign. If you can’t bear to work with me, you could contact Intern Aware or Internocracy to see how we can all work together. Have you done that?
We’re not in denial, either as an institution or as a profession. The simple truth is that we’re as outraged about unpaid internships as you are, precisely because we believe it undermines the very value of graduates on which the reputation of universities rests. To be in cahoots with such practices would contradict our very raison d’etre.
Unfortunately, careers centres can’t work miracles. We do what we can within our remit and resource. Our professional bodies strongly express these concerns to government, but if the news media and politicians ignore them, we’re hardly to blame.
Nor are we ‘dawdling’ in implementing measures, having been rejecting such vacancies for years before the press picked up on them just before the last election. To us, the law on the National Minimum wage is clear, whilst years of widening participation in universities is threatened by the inherent elitism of unpaid internships. Our Vacancy Officer has attended several regional and national meetings where unpaid internships were top on the agenda. Despite what you claim, our profession is solidly with you on this point.
I wouldn’t expect any university to approach interns’ rights groups directly, that’s what the student unions and professional bodies are for, though we do get unions to attend our jobs fairs and would certainly look sympathetically at any publicity of theirs, of which I’ve received none. We do link to resources about employment rights, though, including the TUC pages on internships.
As for the more specific copy of the alleged Inspiring Intern email, this will be followed up as any other vacancy of concern. Given that it contradicts their own website, careers centres can hardly be faulted for refering students to an otherwise apparently legitimate agency.
Of course you’re entitled to your opinions. I agree with many of them. But since you’re now pushing those about careers services to some very influential media, I’m obliged to contradict them where they’re unfounded, especially those which are potentially deeply damaging to our mission to help graduates.
@Leon Doughty
“Internships that fall under the National Minimum Wage act are paid, as are all internships that last longer than three months.”
I know Inspiring Interns say this on their site but in reality they are constantly and knowingly advertising positions that break the Minimum Wage regulations. They like to couch what they do in user friendly terms but all they are doing is making money out of young people’s desperation to get a foothold in their chosen career.
IMHO Inspiring Interns are a nasty bunch of cynical opportunists who have spotted a chance to make money out of young people, and have dived in with great alacrity. Any University careers service who promotes this bunch are just helping them to make money out of their exploitative practices!
@Leon
‘I wouldn’t expect any university to approach interns’ rights groups directly, that’s what the student unions and professional bodies are for.’
Interesting – why wouldn’t you? And isn’t a university careers centre a professional body? I’ve got no objection to the way careers centres are run, I’d just like them to admit that they are, well, not run at all. I spent a fair amount of time in mine at the end of my third year and was given a lot of promotional literature to read and a few copy-pasted lines about how a CV should be no longer than 2 pages. It seems are staffed largely by volunteers, are way under capacity, do not have the correct resources and are overstretched, just like I know that they are being painted in a very bad light here which is not the fault of any individual. I’m sorry that you and the other careers advisers here are being scapegoated and I respect your right to defend your institution – admirable – but the buck needs to stop being passed and a proper national system needs to be implemented to make a careers centre the vital resource it should be and capable of delivering what it should be.
@MaryB
Obviously I can’t comment on individual employers, but we always act on feedback from graduates, so thanks for that. However, it’s just not viable to vet every opportunity in detail in advance, hence the more powerful ‘teaching to fish’ metaphor. We’ll certainly be updating our advice to further reflect these concerns, though.
@RedHead
We’re a body of professionals, not a professional body. That is there are specific organisations with remits (budgets) which cover these areas, with whom we liaise. It is they (AGCAS, NASES et al) who collate feedback and formulate policy advice to assist us and to influence government where possible. This has been done already. As I say, the law is reasonably clear.
If you want someone to get angry with, I suggest you take up the argument with those politicians who ignore UK law and think it’s OK to employ unpaid interns, thereby giving a false impression to a certain type of employer that it’s legal. Do check their definition of ‘intern’ before you do so: limited unpaid work experience is legal, full-time unpaid work leading to material gain for the employer is not.
I should add that we were approached by one or more parliamentary candidates prior to the election for unpaid interns, which we duly rejected.
Some advice on who is NOT entitled to the NMW:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/TheNationalMinimumWage/DG_175114
@Leon
AGCAS has been extremely supportive – and clearly told its members (the university careers advisers) that they should not advertise ANY unpaid internships to their students and graduates. But we know for a fact that many of them are ignoring this advice. It seems to me that careers advisers like to claim they are independent OR taking orders from others as and when it suits them. Which is it – are you accountable for your actions or not?
I and the interns rights groups have been extremely active in doing this. Where are you and your colleagues? Nowhere to be seen. Have you submitted evidence to the Low Pay Commission for their forthcoming report on internships? Will you be sending a representative to the Low Pay Commission evidence session on Friday? I suspect you have no idea what I’m talking about…
University careers services should be doing 2 things as BASIC:
1) Informing students and graduates about their rights as interns – and keeping them up to date on the current situation
2) NOT advertising unpaid internships to your students and graduates, ever.
3) Taking a more active part in the campaign against unpaid internships. AGCAS is happy to take a stand on this, so why are the careers advisers themselves still scared of being seen as ‘political’? This is not about party politics, it is about upholding the law for young workers.
AGCAS represents university careers centres. That’s their role. The reason they’ve been so supportive is because their members (that’ll be us) have been actively vocal to them in seeking the national solution you, and we, crave. As much as I’d love to have a rant to the Low Pay Commission, that’s not my job. As with every other profession, that’s what we pay our membership fee for.
We do inform students about their rights, as well as vet those vacancies we can, but certainly we can and will do even more. Unfortunately, unless you can gift us the miracle of hindsight, we cannot guarantee that our vacancies will be 100% clean of dodgy employers. Should you see one, let us know the factual evidence and due process will be done.
@Leon I wasn’t angry with you at all and I appreciate the response. I hope someday very soon the careers centres get the help they deserve so that future graduates can.
Thanks for listening Leon, and I agree with you re politicians who ignore minimum wage law!
Every discussion of this issue that I’ve been involved in has included the fact that our refusing to advertise unpaid internships isn’t going to stop the fact that it’s the only way into certain industries. If we have students who want to work in the national media, what can we do but tell them that most of the major media outlets are heavily dependent on unpaid interns and that that’s where they start their recruitment? If university careers services don’t advertise unpaid internships, are they going to die off, or simply be recruited via informal networks, favouring the children of the upper middle classes?
I work for an institution which had 76 students in voluntary work in our last DLHE return, and over 50 of them were genuine voluntary work (ie. for third-sector organisations, mostly in social care or counselling, with a few working in charity shops and a few overseas). Less than 1% of our graduates were in unpaid roles which looked like they should be subject to the NMW. But then, very few of our graduates go into the top-level politics or media jobs in the Southeast.