THIS IS A “FUN” AND “VERY SOUGHT-AFTER OPPORTUNITY” SAYS EDITOR-IN-CHIEF TIM ARTHUR
*GRADUATE FOG EXCLUSIVE*
The Editor-in-Chief of Time Out has defended the magazine’s controversial £2-a-day internship, insisting it is only “work experience.” This is despite the fact that the advert for this position states that the three-month, full-time role will involve “writing responsibilities” and the intern will “build up a portfolio of printed work” during their time there.
On Friday morning, Graduate Fog wrote to Time Out for an explanation about the ad, which appeared on Gorkana last week. The intern – who must be a graduate – was offered only the “princely” sum of £2 a day in lunch money, a two-zone travel card, “plus the odd invite to something very exclusive” as payment. (Click here to see the original ad). On Friday afternoon, Time Out’s business manager, Alex Batho, wrote back:
To: Graduate Fog:
From: Time Out
Date: Friday 13 April 2012, 5.09pmHi Tanya
See below response from Time Out’s Editor-in-Chief.
Tim Arthur, Time Out editor-in-chief
Time Out intern/work experience placements do not last longer than three months; most are between two and four weeks. These placements are not paid because they are work experience. The £2 offered, besides travel expenses, is a contribution towards lunch not a fee for their work. Placements are given to people who are studying or just starting out in the media and genuinely want the kind of experience they can gain working within an organisation such as Time Out. We ensure that every person who undertakes a placement with us leaves having gained valuable practical experience and often with some published work under their belt, something that is invaluable when trying to get a job within the industry. At a time when gaining relevant experience in your chosen field can set you apart from others we feel that an internship/work experience placement at Time Out is not only a very sought-after opportunity but one which is actually fun, carefully planned and something we know that many many people have enjoyed and found helpful over the years.Our own UK Lifestyle Editor is testament to that:
‘Like most people with editorial jobs, I started out as an intern/work experience. However, rather than making hot beverages and clearing out cupboards, my placement at Time Out gave me experience of actual editorial work: I was allowed to practise writing up events (with all of my work supervised and rewritten); I was taken to events (given tickets to Fashion Week shows, allowed to attend openings and make contacts). I was also given paid work on other sections of the magazine, and at the end of my placement I was given regular paid work, which ultimately led to my current position as a section editor. I had no financial support from my family: while an intern, I worked in a bar to fund my placement, and Time Out’s editor at the time was understanding about my need to leave early and arrive late. Being an unpaid intern is hard, but the Time Out internship was genuinely enjoyable and useful. Which is why so many of our interns get jobs — their experience sets them apart from other candidates in what is an extremely difficult climate for aspiring journalists.’
Best wishes
Alex
—
Alex Batho
Business Manager
Time Out
Universal House
251 Tottenham Court Road
London W1T 7AB
Tel: 020 7813 6605
Today (Monday) we replied:
To: Time Out
From: Graduate Fog
Date: 16 April 2012, 1.11pmHi Alex,
Thanks for your email.
Unfortunately, I’m afraid it has only proved that Time Out is a very long way behind where it should be in understanding why graduates are so offended by unpaid internships like the one you have advertised.
We believe that unpaid internships exploit those who do them and exclude those who can’t afford to do them. While unpaid internships may seem harmless (and even helpful) at first, they have in fact proved to be hugely damaging for young people.
Now that these internships are so commonplace, graduates are finding that they last longer and longer, with less chance of a job at the end of them. And they have to do more of them – often over a year of unpaid work – before they can find paid employment. Most of the time, unpaid internships do not lead to a paid job – they just lead to another unpaid internship.
Of course, this supposed ‘system’ for entry also serves to block out all the talented candidates who are unable to work (and somehow live?) in London for free. It was interesting to hear your lifestyle editor’s story – but I suspect that s/he would struggle to survive on part-time bar work now, with the cost of living as high as it is in the capital today.
Finally, I would like to ask how Time Out feels that this role fits with the national minimum wage legislation, which states that anybody doing the job of a ‘worker’ (as defined by law) must be paid at least the minimum wage (£6.08 for over 21s). The employer must pay this an the intern cannot waive their right to this wage, even if they say they are happy to work for free. Is it your understanding that this intern would not fit these criteria and would therefore not be eligible for pay?
With thanks again
Tanya
PS I understand you have removed your advert from Gorkana – but are we to assume that the internship itself is still going ahead?
We will let you know as soon as they reply…
*WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF TIME OUT’S RESPONSE?
Is this role really ‘work experience’? Is a part-time bar job enough to make ends meet while you work full-time for companies like Time Out? What would you like to say to the Editor, Tim Arthur?
I’m so fed up with people using the ‘I did part-time work to afford it’ line to justify doing an unpaid internship.
a) It’s much, much harder for people of any age to gain paid work at the moment, paid or unpaid. Just because you’ve been lucky enough to gain paid work, does not mean other people will be in the same position.
b) Even if part-time paid work was a reasonable goal for everyone at the moment, it’s plain ridiculous to have to subsidise your working for free by taking on ANOTHER job. This should NOT become the norm for anyone.
c) Just because you are able to work part-time on top of doing what is usually a full-time internship doesn’t mean everyone else can. What if you’ve got children? What if you have a disability? What if you’re caring for someone? What if you can’t afford to live on part-time wages because of the above reasons? All of these things contribute to discrimination.
Only people from a VERY SPECIFIC set of circumstances can boast that they can support themselves on a part-time job while doing an internship. Even if you did, by some stretch of the imagination, manage to find what is essentially an extra FULL-time job in the evenings and at weekends and you were able to take it… is that any way to live? With no spare time for anything else, not enough time to see friends or sleep?
I can’t stand these defences for unpaid internships. Whenever I hear them from employers, all I hear is “I don’t care about anyone who can’t benefit my company”. When I hear them from interns, all I hear is “I don’t care about anyone less fortunate than me”. Unpaid internships are ridiculous and need to be stopped.
Time Out’s response if typical of disfunctional employers who reach to their fellow managers for employment advice when any correctly functioning organisation would speak to the HR department immediately to find out their legal standing!
Nothing new here, outrageous nevertheless.
The fact that Time Out most likely can afford to pay their intern but choose not to makes it even worse.
I am going to shout this from the internet rooftops, and I recommend that all Foggers do the same. Let’s not allow Time Out to slink under a stone and try to get away from their failure to pay the Minimu Wage to these young people.
This stinks and the smell is emanating from the management at Time Out.
Suggest blitzing this facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/TimeOutLondon?ref=ts
Well said Sarah.
There are too many people who are proud that they had to slog their guts out for nothing for profit making companies for months/years until it led to a job. They are so brainwashed they think there is merit in going through such hardship.
*all her work was rewritten
what patronising crap
just bought the book, looking forward to reading it
Great, thanks Joddle! 250 copies are on their way to me now, so I’ll be dispatching soon… Exciting! Now I’ve got to buy envelopes… Who knew there were so many types?!
That’s an internship in itself there, Tanya. I can imagine it now:
CluelessFashion seeks “Envelope Research Executive”. 40+hours per week minimum commitment. Must be willing to work evenings and weekends where required. There probably isn’t a job at the end, but it’ll be AMAZING experience. Five years admin experience and degree required. Salary is unpaid, but it’ll be amazing experience.
Send your CV to areyouhavingalaugh@CluelessFashion.co.uk
🙂
@Craig – You are a genius – why didn’t i think of that? I would LOVE to offer one lucky graduate this fantastic opportunity to develop their envelope-buying skills ; )
Now, what ridiculous waste-of-time tasks should I get them to do when ‘interviewing’ for this once-in-a-lifetime role?
Perhaps –
– Determine the corresponding envelope for the type of paper printed on.
– Deliver mail between departments, and take external mail and packages to the post office.
– Liase with other departments on their postal and misc needs.
– Take full responsibility of all fiscal and managerial aspects of the Envelope Research Executive department.
– Recruit more interns as the operation expands.
The more I write, the more I realise that if this job were not a fictional satire of unpaid internship adverts, some poor intern, somewhere, would actually take this to improve their CV… :/
Last time I checked, a pretty low level London city rent in zone 2 is about £550 per month, without bills/council tax/food. Part time work in a bar, even for most of the week will not even begin to cover these costs.
If you’re not receiving hand outs from the fam, living hand to mouth previous to this then pretty much it’s not happening.
Though tbf who wants to work for TimeOut anyway?
Have you interned unpaid for Time Out – or any other well-known brand? Fancy some free money?
Check out Interns Fight for Justice – the new campaign from Graduate Fog and Intern Aware. We are looking for interns who are feeling brave / angry / skint enough to challenge their former employers and request the wages they are owed for the work they did unpaid.
Even if your internship was a while ago and you agreed to work unpaid at the time, that doesn’t matter. The minimum wage works out at around £1,000 a month, so depending on the length of your internship you could be in line to receive a tidy sum!
Just get in touch with us for more information:
https://graduatefog.co.uk/2012/2080/interns-fight-justice-campaign/
Thanks!
Graduate Fog x
PS. None of this will cost you a penny!