(AND WHEN YOU SHOULD INVITE THEM TO BUTT IN)
**GUEST BLOG POST BY ANNE WILSON, ONE-TO-ONE GRADUATE CAREERS ADVISER FOR GRADUATES AT GRADUATEJOBMENTOR.CO.UK**
“They nag constantly. I know they’re worried, but they don’t seem to realise how hard it is.”
“They set up conversations for me with people I don’t know, without asking me if I’m interested.” “They think I should spend all my time job hunting. I want my life back.”
Sound familiar? Most of the grads I mentor live with at least one parent — and most of them wish they didn’t. Moving home after living independently at uni can feel like a backward step, even before the demoralising grind of job hunting starts.
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But I believe that many grads make things harder for themselves by not setting clear boundaries with their parents. It’s all too easy to flip-flop between being a grown-up and reverting back to being a rebellious — and, let’s be honest, stroppy — teenager, falling into old patterns of behaviour. Parents are also often unsure about the realities of this new relationship (Parent / toddler? Lodger / landlord? Butler / A-lister?) so there’s confusion and resentment on both sides.
Rik — one of the graduates I worked with — was having problems with his dad. Rik said he was on his back continuously, making snide remarks about him lying in bed all day, and not pulling his weight around the house. In response, Rik admitted he was reacting like he did when he was 16 — lashing out and storming out of the house.
Another client — Chloe — said her parents got more nervous about assessment days and interviews than she did. They fussed continuously about what she should wear, do and say, just as they did before her A-levels and her interview for Oxford. She told me it was making job interviews harder.
Yet it hadn’t occurred to Rik or Chloe to sit down and discuss the impact their parents’ behaviour was having on them — and what they could do to be more helpful (and less annoying).
What do you expect of your parents in terms of support — and what do they expect of you? What do you think is reasonable? Do you want their help — or is butting out the most helpful thing they can do? And do they want more from you? Are you pulling your weight with chores around the house? And, even though you’re unlikely to be on top form at this difficult moment in your life, is it reasonable of them to ask you to contribute positively to the conversation at dinner time? If they feel they’re walking on eggshells, is that fair?
However worried they are about you, I think it’s reasonable to expect that they trust you to make your own decisions about your life and career. I think it’s reasonable to expect them to trust you to get support from the right people, if and when you need it.
I also think if you don’t want advice from your parents, you should say so. If you don’t want them to set up meetings and conversations for you, tell them that. But remember that almost every parent has someone in their network who can help you get a job, interview or more insight into fields you might be interested in. So it doesn’t pay to be pig-headed about accepting help.
And I believe parents have rights too. I think it’s reasonable that the people who are providing you with food and shelter (whether you’re paying for it or not) should expect be updated about what’s going on, at regular, reasonable, pre-agreed intervals. The graduates I know who have diarised weekly catch-up meetings with their parents all wish they’d done it sooner. These graduates report feeling more in control. Their parents are relieved that they no longer need to nag because they know their offspring are in charge.
The secret of living peacefully with your parents when you’re looking for a job is clear boundaries and being grown-up enough to discuss everybody’s expectations and responsibilities. If everyone sticks to the deal, it’s win-win. And the result is a happier, more harmonious household.
*Are your parents driving you crazy?
What is the hardest thing about job-hunting from home? Have you talked to your parents about how things are going? Have you discovered the secret of being happy and independent while living at home?
This article is brilliant. I do feel fed up living back at home after university Independence and I do sometimes find I am reverting back to my pre university behavior. However I am very grateful to my parents letting me stay here almost rent free, so when I am asked to do chores around the house I mostly do them. Also my parents do NOT have someone in their network who can help me get a job! My dad is unemployed and my mum works in totally in the wrong field for me and is only a part time three day a week worker as it is. They are over 60 now and a lot of their friends are retired, so I am maybe lucky or unlucky depending on view point that they have never set up meetings for me
I don’t live at home and I’m eternally glad because of the way my mother talks to my brother about his job-hunting. She tends to go back and forth between “he’s not doing anything” and “I’m so proud of what he’s achieving” so it’s a bit confusing! More often than not, she butts in too much, even sending emails to prospective employers pretending to BE him because she thinks he won’t do it (which is a) not true and b) not a good idea anyway!). I’ve had to deal with lots of questions even though I live away from home and pay my own way – jobs have been few and far between but I have plenty of strategies for looking for work and don’t need any outside input.
I’ve just moved in with my 70-something grandfather as there’s no room for me at mum or dad’s houses. I love him to bits, but he drives me insane!
I moved back with my parents after living and working abroad. They were incredibly well meaning but they were constantly asking what I was doing, looking at my computer to try and find out what I was looking at and telling me how I wasn’t trying that hard. Each day my father would tell me of another job opportunity he thought looked good. Never in my sector and when I got rejected from one of his suggested jobs that I did reluctantly apply for, I found him later trying to phone up the MD to complain because I was ‘perfect for the job’. Psychometric testing is another thing they don’t understand as they can’t get why you’re rejected from a potential opportunity by a computer test. Throughout my time at home my father was constantly coming up with ‘helpful hints’ about when he was looking for a job, 50 years ago, when he was straight out of school. He wrote letters to the banks and the first one to reply was the one that he went with. Now that I have a job and moved out again, he sends me a weekly spreadsheet of how much I owe him and my mother for the 6 weeks I was at home, and the starting costs of moving etc, including interest
I’m not in the situation the article describes yet, since I’m only graduating next year, but when I was looking for internships/work experience/temporary work for this summer, my parents and grandparents had a lot to suggest! Mostly along the lines of how I should advertise and put my CV on all the sites like Monster saying I’m looking for some sort of basic job for the summer – and just sit back and wait for the replies. They don’t really understand most of the companies offering that kind of jobs just wait for applicants to come to them nowadays (also because a lot of them have a standardised application process) rather than scouring the job boards for desperate 2nd years like me. We actually got into a fight because I tried to explain to them that a proactive approach is a must these days rather than posting an ad and having employers come to me, but they thought I was being obtuse and unwilling to listen to their time-tested advice!
@Sarah, what your parents are doing with your brother is really counterproductive! I know someone whose parents did the same and even when/if he got asked for an interview, the recruiters could very quickly figure out that he wasn’t the one who initiated it and it makes a really really bad impression. It just looks like the applicant is basically unable to take care of his/her own future, so it might be worth it trying to explain that to your parents. I know they’re trying to help but they’re actually creating more obstacles for your brother this way.
I wonder if a lot of the problem is that most of the job hunting process is being done over the internet, usually with a persons own computer and is effectively invisible. You could spend hours per day searching for jobs and sending off applications but from an outsiders perspective it doesn’t really look much different to a person on their computer on say facebook or twitter all day.
I’m lucky, my parents have been supportive and helpful. My Dad has had his fair share of jobhunting periods in his working life so he has a good understanding of what jobseeking is like in the 21st century. I know some peoples parents who think their kids should be able to get work within days of returning home simply because that’s how it was when they were young.
@Kayla I know, it drives me insane! My mother’s angle is that ‘He won’t do it by himself’ but there’s so many things she hasn’t accounted for. He DOES do things, just not the exact things that she suggests and often he doesn’t tell her when he’s done them (because when he has done in the past she just picks holes in everything). Also, because she keeps jumping in and doing things for him, he feels like she doesn’t have any faith in him which isn’t exactly a motivator… It’s so infuriating that she just can’t see that by repeatedly accusing him of failing to live up to her expectations, he’s going to start believing that he’s useless and can’t do anything! Also, it’s true, it’s going to make employers think less of him.
Has anyone else experienced parents who want to hear about all of your applications/interviews/job hunting progress but then as soon as you tell them, they pick holes? My brother wanted to apply for a job in a local shop and my mother told him not to because she thinks “they always have a job sign in the window which means they must be bad employers” ??? This is AFTER she’d spent half an hour on the phone to me moaning about how my brother doesn’t apply for anything and just spends all day on the computer.
The one I hate the most is when older generations moan about the current economic crisis but in a way that’s totally insensitive to the young. I haven’t earned very much since I graduated but I’ve still worked hard at getting jobs that I actually want and by that standard, I’d say I’ve done pretty well for myself. But because I haven’t gotten straight onto a career ladder and because I still have to borrow money from my parents, apparently none of this matters. My uncle asked me how many of my friends were working in careers they actually wanted to be in and then sneered when I couldn’t answer straight away.
“Well, if you even have to think about it, that speaks volumes!” he laughed.
“No it doesn’t, you paisley-wearing moron, it just means I’ve got more than two friends, unlike SOME people in this room,” I replied.
… No, I didn’t. But the way he was talking, I really really wanted to! The fact is my best friend earns a decent wage as a civil servant and my boyfriend works as a paid intern (his first job since graduating) but he wasn’t interested, he just wanted to hear about the friends I have who are pushing 30 and still working in shops so he could twist it round and make it all doom and gloom…
he just wanted to hear about the friends I have who are pushing 30 and still working in shops so he could twist it round and make it all doom and gloom…
Errr isn’t that what this blog does?
Has anyone found any good strategies for setting clear boundaries with their parents without causing a big fight? Has anyone tried the technique of giving them a weekly catch up meeting, on the condition that they stay out of it the rest of the time? @Derrick I don’t think it has to be gloom and doom – I think there are ways round it so you can be bolstered by their support without being stifled by their opinions.
@Derrick If all this blog did was make snide comments about how young people will never, ever be as well off as previous generations (with added comments suggesting it’s because we’re lazy) then yes. If you honestly think that’s what’s happening, what on earth are you still doing here?
@Anne In my experience, if you feel good about the progress you’re making, it’s easier to set clear boundaries with your parents. It’s not always easy to find the confidence with so much stacked against you but getting outside help is a good idea. Agencies and job clubs are usually run by people who can give you an alternative measure for how well you’re doing, so then you’ve got some backup if your parents start getting at you.
i have graduated this week and my parents understand that when they were young, you could leave school on the friday, have a interview on the monday and starting on the tuesday, were in this day and age there is about 100 if not more people applying for the same job.
as a IT graduate i have found that a lot of IT jobs is you need years of experience. i asked on recuriter why lots of IT jobs say experience “companies like to poach each other staff, and they dont want new starters as it is to costly to recurit and train them.
Alot of this sounds very familiar to me. I did a different qualification, rather than a degree, at uni, but I’ve experienced the same problems with parents.
It didn’t help that I left uni just before the financial crisis and the one paid job I had ended only a few monthes later in redundancy after they had a drop off in trade. I’ve never built up enough capital to move and my Dad has recently retired (as of yesterday) so the situation is not great.
Neither of my parents really understand the modern job market, as my Mum found an admin job very quickly after leaving school, and has stayed in that area without difficulty ever since, and my Dad was a science teacher and so has never really experienced the ‘normal’ jobs market and has always worked. Despite this both of them believe they are experts on my situation due to their life experience and continually give me unhelpful advice and critisism.
I have also experienced the aformentioned skeptisism that I’m doing anything to get myself a job, due mostly to the fact that almost all my applications are online whereas they believe you can still invite yourself to look around a place you’re insterested in working at and have a chat with the boss.
At the end of the day parents not understanding their kids and the generation gap is nothing new but it is very irritating.
Chris your situation sounds really tough. Sympathise completely. If you feel you’re in need of some ideas about how to break out of the ‘apply on line never hear back’ syndrome, take a look at Tanya’s book on how to get a grad job in a recession. Sometimes, using a bit of ingenuity, you CAN invite yourself to a place you’re interested in working and even have a chat with the boss. It takes creativity, energy and a bit of chutzpah, all of which tend to be in short supply when you’ve been looking for a while. Good luck in your job hunt!
@Chris. Yep, my parents were and still are the same. I had to do a bit of research and vigorously defend myself before I got them to back off. My Dad is stuck in his blinkered view and I’ve stopped trying to educate him on the current graduate market, although I still have to argue with him now and again when he pontificates; we agree to disagree.
I’m not going to try and give you any ‘advice’. But it’s good to chew the cud, lol.
@Anne Wilson. I think mentoring is the best thing for young people – it can save someone spending weeks, months or even years of wandering in the wilderness. The world can be a cold and lonely place at times, and a friendly chat or a referral to another person or organization at a crucial point in a person’s life can make their world a little warmer and more promising.
Here here Brian.
I agree Brian. Unfortunately i’ve already spent a few years ‘wandering in the wilderness’. From when I dropped out at 19 to my current age now of 24. When my family are at work and i’m alone in the house all day, you really have to wonder where the spark is going to come from.
Indeed, Richard. However, you never know how your life might develop, or what opportunities might come your way. Things might seem hopeless now, but in 6 months or maybe in a few years, your life might get turned around.
I spent the first 15 years of my adult life doing my own wandering in the wilderness. I was in a similar position to yourself when I was 21. I had gained a year’s full-time social work voluntary experience, which turned sour at the end and shook my confidence in pursuing this as a career. However, I went on to an Access to Social Work course, which would lead to access to a professional social work course. But about half way through, a string of malpractice cases across the UK filled the papers, with stories of social workers under too much pressure and not enough time to spend on cases, leading to serious mistakes being made. I thought, “This could happen to me” – I didn’t want to be responsible for someone’s death, or fail to prevent abuse. I dropped out of college.
I tried this, I tried that in order to try to find work. Employers were not interested in investing in me, only prepared to offer temporary work. I was long-term unemployed several times, suffered a stretch of depression and wondered what to do with myself. I left home at 23, needing my own space, but with no job and no money, I moved into a dingy bedsit. I had a good local church support network during this period, which helped tremendously. I had good administration skills and qualifications, even a BTEC National Diploma in Business and Finance. I would be happy with an admin job, but no one was interested.
It was out of the blue that I decided to go to university. No one suggested it to me. I just woke up one day and made the decision. My older brother went to Uni after school, struggled and developed a successful graduate career – perhaps this was an influence, I don’t know. I was motivated by what I regarded as a lack of proper leadership in my town, where both civic and religious leaders seemed more concetned about pumping out their own narrow agenda, protecting their own interests, instead of working together for the common good. I would get the knowledge and seek to change things. I got my History degree in 2008, I was offered a place at the University of Nottingham to do MA in Social Policy and Administration with a planned career path into Local Government. I met the criteria for funding, but the banks turned me down.
This was a major body blow and for three years I applied for graduate jobs and got nothing – not even an interview. It was a wrench but my decision to go it alone and embark on a voyage of discovery through historical research was the best thing I ever decided since graduating. My aim is to publish within five years.
I hope, Richard, that you will be encouraged by my comment to continue to seek a meaningful career, something which will bring you personal satisfaction first and foremost.
Unfortunately that’s the way. My Dad triumphalistically declared his asinine ideas about jobhunting to be true when I committed the crime of not having a job after uni. Then gives me this disgustingly arrogant lecture reliably informing me that I wouldn’t get what I want. But to cover his arse comes out with “you might get what you want with luck”. None of his ideas in my sector and people in my masters rarely get jobs outside of 3, maybe 4 roles as it is specialist work.
Then when, no thanks to him, I get the job he goes “see, must have had luck then”. Very annoying, he still thinks he knows more about my sector than I do 10 years on. OK, he’s improved and cut the bull, but he still compares all jobs to the cushy civil service gig he had and retired early from.
It is vital to lay down boundaries. Unfortunately, being 20-24 when this happens puts parents in the drivers seat emotionally. Even moving back aged 30-40 I suspect it would be difficult but boundaries are always messed up in families, but at least by then an adult should be more assertive. Thing is, just a little space is needed and forcing something like “he’s not looking” or “she’s being too picky” to be true is something our mind tricks us into doing, and it does it very well. The truth doesn’t change under pressure from parent. It is too easy to blame the kid, compare them to others in easier sectors (where they probably got in with less education) rather than face the truth that the jobs market is much more specialised and that a parent’s careful planning didn’t take that into account, particularly when people do postgraduate studies.
I suspect we will still see this in a generation’s time – what this generation will do is not see whatever changes come in place in 20 years or so, and again be in the dark or at least not up to date on what their kids go thru. Also some people just aren’t up to speed – many people get a bit of luck and conclude that they are experts in job searches when they are not. I get a huge sense of denial when I try to explain to some people how common long periods out of work can be in my industry (even at market peaks) and I suspect a huge subset of that lot won’t get it when it happens to their kids straight out of uni. It’s just too fashionable to go with statements like “so when are gonna work and join the real world eh?” for parents not to stay this way.
I just started reading some of the experiences. One thing I’ve learnt since leaving home is about assertiveness – some cases you just won’t win, but it’s always worth trying. I have sat down and spoke to my Dad but know there are still severe limitations in his understanding, as I said he still compares everything to the only job he ever had and lectures all of us at the drop of a hat – if we had never worked it would make sense, but we have all worked so it doesn’t.
I can certainly relate to the annoyance of online and invisible activity – on top of that I needed to go through a required reading list to be interview ready (my original sector is VERY technical) which meant 3 months of no actual applications (can be very common with maths careers). Try explaining that to idiot parents.
Glad to know I’m not alone in having parents who are an absolute nightmare in purportedly helping me in my search for a graduate job. It’s difficult searching for a graduate job in an era of mass graduate unemployment and underemployment when you live with people who are relics of an era when you could get a paid, stable job as an investment banker with a Third in an irrelevant degree without having to stack shelves at Asda and go though an unpaid internship before getting a decent job. At their worst, my parents have made unfair accusations that I am sitting on my hands, have nagged and hounded me into applying and attending interviews for jobs I really don’t want and even gone so far to say I need to go back to a place which took me on for an unpaid internship and blatantly ignoring the fact I did not pay thousands of pounds in tuition fees to work for free. I wonder how they would have felt if it was their parents dispensing that advice in the 80s. Also, when I make an application, at first my parents were insufferable in asking me for updates on the application’s progress, at times it felt like the scene in The Simpsons when they’re on a long car journey and Bart and Lisa repeatedly ask Homer ‘are we there yet?’ ad nauseam. I found that an effective way of stopping this was to agree that I would let them know about application outcomes as and when they came through rather than them asking me.
@Nick
That’s great that you’ve managed to reach an understanding with your parents. As you say, things were very different in their day, and it’s hard for them to understand (and watch) the struggles that you are going through in trying to get your career started.
I would strongly advise that you try to tune out their anxieties and instead focus on keeping your job hunt on track, and keeping your spirits up. Have you seen our Advice section?
These pages are particularly relevant:
How to find vacancies – https://graduatefog.co.uk/advice/find-vacancies-2/
How to organise your job hunt – https://graduatefog.co.uk/advice/organise-job-hunt/
How to build your network – https://graduatefog.co.uk/advice/build-network-2/
How to stay motivated – https://graduatefog.co.uk/advice/stay-motivated/
Thanks for the advice Tanya, my parents are more of an irritation than a drain on my morale or a major stressor in my life. They generally trust me to find jobs and I can generally keep them at arms length but they can get a little too close for comfort. I’m fine finding the vacancies – there are few specialist websites for my profession which are really helpful. As for motivation – I generally have more good days than bad days.
I’m too getting irritated by my parents. The just want me to have a job and are not trying to understand what I want to do. They just don’t want me to do a job without knowing that I am interested on it or not or I do have a knowledge about it or not.
This is the situation I find myself in. I have been offered interviews for IT roles which are on a graduate salary, but a lot of it doesn’t interest me, at least not yet. I need to do more research. Yet I badly want to move out at the same time. A few months back I was offered an interview on the “FDM” graduate scheme (crap), and upon reading about it on thestudentroom forum I found that I would have to repay my fees in full if I quit the scheme within the two years (about 20 grand). Obviously I turned it down.
Silly me thought I would be able to get a science job straight out of uni and live away from home whilst I figured things out. It didn’t happen and I couldn’t even get a technician role analysing water samples. What an absolute JOKE.
So yes, I have to stay at home and suffer until I can figure it all out. That is unless I travel. Not a bad idea actually…
My dad is always trying to micro manage my life and make me feel guilty.
Next week he wants me to go to a jobs fair, even put it on the calendar. I don’t want to go for many reasons and it will be a waste of time for me. He will go on about this now.
When I come up with my own ideas, he belittles them and comes up with reasons why I can’t.
It was the same with university. After the first year I had the chance to transfer to York or Kings college. I was going to take a year out and I remember him coming in my room and sitting on the chair, telling me I was “throwing it all away” etc. I stayed at my local university and had a horrible three years. By year three I stopped turning up except for my project.
People will probably not understand but he has chipped away at my confidence and I have no confidence or belief in myself. He belittles everything I say. I say I want to move to London for work or study and he says I can’t afford it (errr, so how do others in their 20s afford to house share then?).
After university, I decided to put my foot down as I will not allow him to have any bearing on my career. I crossed out the jobs fair on the calendar and I am just utterly pissed off, trapped and alone.
My mum is the total opposite. She supports everything I say. If my dad had been like her, my life would have been so much happier as I would have done the things I want to do.
Can citizens advice help me find a council flat if I make myself homeless? I am being systematically bullied at home. I can’t take this any more and i don’t want to be here any more.
I’d talk to your local CAB but a homeless application isn’t the route to a council house it once was. Councils can discharge their duty to statutory homeless using the private sector these days.
http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2012/oct/26/council-homelessness-rules-housing-policy
Also if you “make yourself homeless” you are considered “intentionally homeless” which means they don’t have to help.
Just getting more and more stressed out by it all.
Parents are telling me to get a retail job for Xmas. Oddly retail employers don’t want to hear form someone with a degree from a top university who hasn’t worked in retail for several years. When I’m not volunteering so as to avoid a CV gap most days are spent alone in the library looking for vacancies.
I feel I’m at a point where I’ve applied to everything I reasonably stand a chance of getting and am struggling to find the vacancies now. Sure I can start applying for anything and everything but what does that achieve? Just feel so panicky all the time.
Yep, everyone has a job except me. Even the people who failed their GCSEs did a HNC and got company funded and now earn £40k. I wasted my time.