FOUND A JOB AFTER WORKING FOR FREE? DO YOUR BIT AND BLOW THE WHISTLE
Being an unpaid intern sucks. But if you make it through the placement (or several) and finally land a proper, paid job with a different organisation, do you have a duty to report your unpaid internship, so your ex-employer can’t keep exploiting (and excluding) others?
Perhaps controversially, Graduate Fog is starting to think ‘Yes’. Why? Because we believe former interns are in a unique position – and actually, it’s quite a powerful one.
In finding paid work, former interns have gone from being victims to victors. Now, they have an incredible opportunity to take down the people who exploited them (unless it’s the same firm that eventually hired them, or course!) – and will happily keep doing it to others. In complaining, former interns can also do their bit to dismantle an entry system that is unfair and illegal, and still exploits and excludes far too many talented young people.
In recent years, we have seen many brave former interns square up to the employers who were happy to take their labour for free. These have resulted in massive press exposure for the issue as big brands have paid out – including X Factor, Arcadia, Reed, Fox Searchlight and Sony.
Intern hero Emily Wong, the former Milss Selfridge intern who challenged Arcadia to pay her the wages she deserved. The firm later made multiple payouts to former interns
Watching in horror, other big companies have scrambled to check their own hiring and payment processes, to make sure they’re on the right side of the law.
But we need more interns to come forward. Although interns need to be named in the paperwork, they needn’t ever be named publicly – so the employer and the officials are the only people who will know it was them (unless they choose to ‘go public’ if and when the story is picked up by the media).
Campaign groups like Graduate Fog and Intern Aware have done much to support interns – by naming and shaming big brands and famous people caught taking advantage of young people so desperate for experience that they will work for free.
We are also working on tightening the law, and pressuring politicians to prioritise this issue. But one thing we can’t do is directly challenge employers we know are still exploiting unpaid interns. We need your stories as proof.
Between us all, we have achieved a lot. We have seen a huge culture shift on the issue – with the majority of large companies having realised that running unpaid internships is illegal and unfair.
Have you interned for Vivienne Westwood? Please speak up – we need your story
But still the practice still persists – particularly in fashion (wave to Vivienne Westwood and Alexander McQueen), media and politics, and among smaller firms and new ‘start-up’ companies. We need those who intern for these employers to keep coming forward.
(Incidentally, we recommend that former interns contact Intern Aware, rather than going to the Pay and Work Rights Helpline directly, as we believe strong cases are being mysteriously dismissed. There is no charge for this service and you may be awarded up to £1,000 for every month you worked unpaid).
Of course, we campaigners will keep fighting for interns. But we know from experience that there is nothing more powerful than an intern squaring up to their former employer, to demand the back pay they are owed.
We know this can be scary – and we wouldn’t ask anyone to do it until they feel safe. But once they have a permanent job – or have decided to work in a different industry altogether – Graduate Fog thinks they should do it if they can. After all, those who intern unpaid are the ‘lucky’ ones. For every unpaid intern, there are many more who can’t afford to work for free for months on end. Do the fortunate ones have a duty towards their less fortunate peers, who are locked out of these opportunities?
When you finally land a paid job, we know it’s tempting to just put the whole intern thing behind you and throw yourself into your new life. We think the ‘big picture’ suggests you have a duty to do more than that. Please, remember those who aren’t so lucky.
* DO INTERNS HAVE A DUTY TO REPORT THEIR OLD EMPLOYER?
Is it time that former interns did more to help the cause? If you’ve interned unpaid, did you report your employer? If not, was it because you worried it could impact your career – or because you just wanted to move on? Do you think Graduate Fog is being harsh to suggest that former interns have a duty to make a formal complaint if they can?
I would be wary of following Tayna’s advice. If the first hit employers see when they Google me is ‘ Daniel takes company to tribunal to recover unpaid wages’ there is a danger than my CV will be thrown into the bin. At the CAB I see people whose ability to stay in the country is dependent upon being in work. Such people will put up with anything and are too scared to enforce workplace rights. Why hire a bolshy former intern when you can get people like that?
The reality of the jobs market today is (a) employers expect experience. (b) employers don’t expect to have to train anyone up (c) Employers would often rather hire someone already in employment and (d) EU freedom of movement means that every unemployed Greek or Spanish youth has the ability to apply for the same job as you.
Given this if you are not doing an unpaid internship/volunteering you are likely to get passed over for someone who is willing to work for free. Of course it shouldn’t be like this but it is.
@Daniel Sorry for not being clear – I am not saying there is a duty to come out and be named. Although interns will need to be named when they bring a case, this will not be made public. If they are really confident and feel strongly (as Emily Wong did) they can be named, but it is not necessary.
I will amend the post to reflect this – it’s my fault for not making it clear.
Although for the record the idea that someone would be passed over for a job at another employer simply because they have stood up against a former exploitative employer absolutely appals me! What kind of country / job market is this, where workers should have to live in such fear of being labelled a whinger / troublemaker / ‘bolshy’ (your word) simply for asking for fair pay for the work they performed?
Personally I would be incredibly wary of anything getting into the press. Tribunal appeals are published
http://www.employmentappeals.gov.uk/public
/causelist.aspx.
The problem is that Google never forgets anything. Take the Poundland girl Cait Reilly. The graduate forced to stack shelves under some ‘workfare’ scheme. What ever happened to her? It can’t help her that the first hit whenever anyone Googles her is a national newspaper denouncing her as a “scrounger”.
It is depressing but I’ve come to accept unpaid work. You don’t get a 20k job handed to you on graduation anymore.
The organisation I am currently volunteering with is currently recruiting for a part time admin worker. I intend to apply. This advert has not appeared in the local press. It has not been advertised on the website. Basically applicants are limited to people who can view our noticeboard which discounts anybody not currently employed or volunteering. To not give my labour away for free tomorrow would exclude me from applying.
The biggest issue you’ll face is that now these former unpaid interns have made it through successfully they’ll think that the system is fair because they were one of the winners.They might also find it unfair that the following classes get to skip unpaid internships altogether and move straight into paid work – not paying your dues if you still.It’s the same logic that perpetuates hazing and it’s difficult to break.
I know that when I was starting out I thought my time was so worthless that companies were doing a favor by letting me work for free.I never even considered seeking out a paid job in my field directly. Whilst I’m very satisfied with both of my unpaid internships,I always tell students who ask me for advice to seek a paid job first, and that it’s worth the extra time they spend in the job hunt.Perhaps you might get more support for this position.
@Daniel – There have been a few tribunal cases with interns, but I don’t think there have been any recently. Now, complaints about back pay are settled without anyone going to court. Today, the Dept of Business has just published the names of 75 businesses caught paying their staff less than the min wage, and ordered to pay back pay – and although the businesses are named, the complainants (workers) are not.
I have asked Emily Wong and Keri Hudson to comment below here, so hopefully we’ll hear from them what it’s like to be ‘out’ about the fact you’ve complained about unpaid internships. Emily and Keri have both been named in the press for complaining about internships – Keri’s case went to tribunal, Emily’s was sorted without.
Cait Reilly did indeed get a very rough ride in the press – the Daily Mail were particularly brutal – but I have huge admiration for her, for standing up for herself. NO doubt some employers will have been put off from hiring her, but others may actually have admired her commitment and determination. Do you not think it’s possible that ‘good’ employers might actually be impressed by what she achieved?
@RecentGrad – I’m interested in this statement that you made:
“The biggest issue you’ll face is that now these former unpaid interns have made it through successfully they’ll think that the system is fair because they were one of the winners.”
If you had to guess, what percentage of former unpaid interns who find a job will think like this, do you think? I wonder whether it’s partly industry-dependent – in particular I’d say this attitude is probably most common in media, fashion and politics, where internships are not just a rite of passage but also considered a sort of assault course / test that only the strongest / toughest / ones who want it badly enough will pass.
Of course, you’re right to remind me of how vulnerable and low many unpaid interns feel about themselves and their ‘value’. But once they find a paid job – and realise that what happened to them wasn’t right – don’t you think they should consider their responsibility to take action against their employer? Or do you think they might fear that the interns behind them might actually hate them, for removing what they view as an opportunity?
Wow, this really is one complicated issue..! I’m glad I raised this question though, it’s so important to discuss this stuff, don’t you think?
Surely We all have a duty to report those companies which are complicit in deceit and which conspire to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.
After all, if a company did not shirk its responsibilities, where legally if someone is subject to a defcato Contract of Employment, and it is a trivial matter to infer that someone is on a Contract of Employment, https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/rights-at-work/contracts-of-employment/#h-how-to-tell-if-someone-is-an-employee-or-not
and in consequence are legally obliged to pay at least the National Minimum Wage (plus Tax and National Insurance), then that company would employ someone to do that job, and that someone may be you.
Best give those employers which deploy dubious recruitment practices a wide berth lest you be part of a crimnal conspiracy to avoid paying taxes.
You’re correct in saying it would be quite prevalent in those fields, I’d suggest highly competitive fields like finance and law would be like that as well.
Also why would successful interns want to take action against their former employees? Many of then would have gained valuable skills and recognise the part the internship played in their success. Even if there was lingering resentment they would want to focus on the future as opposed to remaining in the past by dragging their former employer through a complex legal process where they would at the very least have to gather evidence and attend hearings and interviews for the investigating officials.
It’s those who had a terrible internship experience and have very little to lose that would speak out.
Also many internships happen when the intern approaches the company on their own initiative and ask for work experience. If they got the work experience they were looking for and it helped them get a paid position they would consider what you’re suggesting a betrayal of the people who helped them.
As to percentages that’s anyone’s guess.
I think the best way to abolish unpaid internships would be to just legislate them out of existence.
Also you profile a student earlier whose old employer called her new employer and managed to get her sacked. The fear of the old employer notifying the new employer of any perceived disloyalty would keep successful interns in check. Most would be on probation periods. I think you overestimate the job security that even those in top graduate schemes have.
@Eowyn Rohan – Thanks for your comment – interesting stuff. So do you think former interns have a duty to report their former employer, once they feel ‘safe’ to do so?
@Recent Grad – Good point, there are certainly lots of ‘successful’ former interns who might feel they were ‘burning bridges’ by reporting their former employer – even once you’ve got a job, it’s good to have an extended network outside your current employer.
I also agree with your point about wanting to focus on the future.
However, as I mentioned in the orginal post, I can’t help feeling that ‘successful’ interns are in fact the ‘lucky’ ones. Don’t they have some sort of moral obligation towards their less fortunate peers, the ones who couldn’t afford to intern unpaid at all, or not for as long as they did? Or who weren’t lucky enough to be in the rihgt place at the right time, to find a paid position?
@RecentGrad – Interesting that you think an intern would consider complaining about an employer to be a ‘betrayal’ of their employer. But is it not a ‘betrayal’ of their poorer peers to do the internship, benefit from the internship and then not take any action to make sure that employer stops exploiting / excluding others in future?
On Graduate Fog we don’t blame interns for taking unpaid positions – we know all too well that they feel they have little or no bargaining power, and that experience is vital these days. But I’m afraid I am beginning to feel that those few former interns who find themselves in a position to be able complain – because they no longer care what that employer thinks of them, as they have a job with a nicer company now, or they’ve decided to pursue a career in a completely different industry – do have some sort of obligation to report what happened to them.
@Recent Grad – I take your point about job security. But I am only talking about those former interns who DO feel secure enough to complain at a later date, but choose not to – either because they don’t want to spend the time / effort, or because they simply want to put the past behind them.
I have heard the point made before that if there was more solidarity among young people, they would be much less vulnerable to exploitation. I know it’s impossible to ask people not to intern for free when many feel it is their only hope of breaking into certain industries. But I feel the least they can do if the system ‘works’ for them, is to do their bit for the cause when they feel they can! Campaigning on this issue is extremely tiring, and sometimes I feel that interns themselves could do more to help. It is always more powerful to stand up for yourself rather than wait and hope and have someone else do it for you…!
Just trying to amass a list of all the reasons more interns don’t report their unpaid internships, even when they have found paid, permanent work so should feel ‘safe’ to do this:
– Worried about their references in future (should anything go wrong with current employer – internship employer could be needed)
– Worried about burning bridges with the limited professional network they have built outside their current / new job
– Want to move on / look to the future, not look back
– Don’t know unpaid internships are illegal, or they can claim back pay
– Know it’s illegal but assume their internship happened too long ago, or because they agreed to work unpaid they wouldn’t be able to claim (not true by the way!)
– Worried their name will appear online connecting them to the case, affecting their digital footprint forever (it won’t – this only happens if the case goes to tribunal – and most internship cases are settled by the Pay and Work Rights Helpline (with help from Intern Aware or the unions)
– Feel they’ve paid their dues – others should have to do the same
– Feel the unpaid internship system ‘worked for them’ – so don’t want to dismantle it when it could benefit others
– Fear others still interning could be angry with them for killing what they view as their only chance of ‘breaking in’ (similar to above but not the same)
Does this sum it up? Any others I’ve missed?
By the time the successful interns do feel secure enough to speak out several years would have passed at least and they would be well established in their careers.
On your point about betraying the underprivileged I doubt most interns would have thought so deeply about the broader social ramifications as you do. You’re absolutely right that there is a lack of solidarity between young people today-we’re very individualistic, materialistic and career oriented. The successful interns are the ones who spent their high school and university lives desperately scrabbling for marks, work experience and volunteer activities. Although they would never admit it publicly, many would be secretly grateful for the barriers to entry unpaid internships pose to bright but poor students.They’ve invested a lot of time and money into securing their advantages e.g. Expensive private educations and would be loathe to give up their competitive advantages.It’s the ‘sharp elbows’effect.
Obviously I don’t subscribe to this view otherwise I wouldn’t follow your site.I absolutely agree that we have a responsibility to the classes that come after us but I doubt your responsibility to report misdeeds would convince the ‘winners.’ Encouraging them to have a respectful conversation with their former employers about changing their practices might have more of an impact.
Your list is a good summary.
Would it not be totally hypocritical to have benefited from an internship and then to report that employer? It would be more beneficial if young people simply refuse to apply for unpaid positions. I did an unpaid work experience placement for 6 weeks, but that was while I was still at uni and living at home. After that I wanted to move out and made a point of not applying for anything unpaid, as I knew I couldn’t afford that. I got a paid internship and then a starter job, now I’m in an averagely paid job in my chosen field. It wouldn’t make sense for me to report my very first placement, because I was the one who arranged it – the position didn’t actually exist, they weren’t advertising and they had a recruitment freeze at the time. Also I had no experience whatsoever and I benefitted more from them than they did from me. The jobs that took me a whole day to do, one of their staff could have in a couple of hours, without having to be shown how. I didn’t have the same pressure that the staff did – I wasn’t under any obligation to be there, I could leave early etc. So I didn’t expect to be paid. I think that an unpaid work experience placement is fine, as long as it’s only a short one where you’re shadowing people and learning the ropes, with no pressure.