TOP EMPLOYER GRANT THORNTON TELLS GRADUATE JOB HUNTERS WHAT YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW
Looking for a graduate job? While there is plenty of basic advice around, you’ve probably learnt that finding answers to some of your trickier questions is much more challenging.
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Should you fudge a CV gap? When should you declare a disability to an employer? Do employers discriminate against unemployed applicants, preferring those who already have a job? How do you spot an organisation that is really great to work for (rather than one that just says it is)? And how exactly do you prove that you have a great ‘attitude’?
These are great questions – and most don’t have simple answers (probably the reason you don’t see many articles written about them!). But that doesn’t faze us at Graduate Fog. In fact, that just means it’s even more vital that we tackle them here.
Last year, we welcomed our first Graduate Fog sponsor to the website – top accountancy firm Grant Thornton. As one of the UK’s most innovative employers of graduates, who better to ask for extra advice on your behalf? So this month we thought we’d quiz Nadine Barr, Grant Thornton’s Brand Resourcing Manager, for her take on the top five trickiest questions that our readers ask. Here is what happened when she spoke to Tanya de Grunwald, Graduate Fog’s founder and author of How to Get a Graduate Job Now, about the questions that come up the most…
QUESTION 1
“I have a big gap on my CV. Should I fudge it, or ‘fess up?”
Tanya de Grunwald, Graduate Fog:
“There are many reasons why graduates may have a gap on their CV. It could be from illness or family circumstances, or perhaps just because they’ve been busy with their job search full-time. While I warn graduates against lying on their CV (it’s illegal!) I also remind them to be sure to include anything at all they were doing during the ‘gap’, even if it was a little bit of freelance work for a friend, volunteering for a local group, or a few bar shifts. If there is nothing at all to attribute to the period, then it’s not the end of the world. Just be ready to explain the gap if your application progresses to interview stage. Do you agree with that advice, Nadine?”
Nadine Barr, Grant Thornton:
“Yes, definitely. I’d also add that most employers are pretty understanding of the situation graduates are in, and a gap of a few months on your CV is unlikely to alarm us. We know it can take time to find a job, even if you’re really motivated and focussed — and of course it takes a bit longer if you struggle to maintain momentum with your job search, which is very common. It’s also important to remember that employers are simply looking for the best person to fill the role available. We don’t look at candidates’ CVs and think “Right, what’s wrong with this person?” We’re looking to see what’s right about your application, so we’ll view it as a whole. If you have lots of other great stuff on your CV, a gap is fine. If we have questions about it, we’ll ask you in the interview, and you’ll have a chance to talk to us about it then.”
Tanya, Graduate Fog:
“What about the opposite problem — if an applicant has had several different roles since they graduated. Will employers think they’re a ‘job-hopper'”?
Nadine, Grant Thornton:
“No — again, most employers should be understanding. We know it’s common nowadays for graduates to be offered short-term contracts or internships. As long as there is a common thread running through them, or you can explain why you took each position, employers are likely to view all experience as good experience.”
QUESTION 2
“Do employers prefer applicants who already have a job?”
Tanya, Graduate Fog:
“Many graduates believe ‘You need a job to get a job’ — in other words, that employers look more favourably upon applicants who are currently in work than those who aren’t. For obvious reasons, this can be dangerous as down-on-their-luck graduates become convinced that their joblessness is the reason why they’re still jobless, which saps their confidence further. What are your views on this?”
Nadine, Grant Thornton:
“It’s disappointing to hear that some graduates feel there is a bias here. At Grant Thornton we would never favour an employed applicant over an unemployed applicant. We offer the role to the best person for the job, who’s shown us they really want it by preparing for and engaging with every stage of the process, and proving they really want to work for us. Most employers want to help tackle youth unemployment, and we want to help to solve it. Personally, I love it when we offer a role to a graduate who is really happy to get it.”
QUESTION 3
“I have a disability. When should I declare it to employers — if at all?”
Tanya, Graduate Fog:
“We’ve created several advice articles for graduates with disabilities and conditions — including dyslexia, Asperger’s and dyspraxia — and the reader comments suggest many graduates are concerned their condition will count against them, despite knowing it’s illegal for employers to discriminate on the grounds of disability. At Graduate Fog, we suggest graduates seek employers who have identified themselves as being ‘disability-positive’ — like those listed on MyPlus Students’ Club. And when applicants choose to declare their disability, we encourage them to be as clear and confident as possible, so that the employer understands what extra support they need. What is your take on this and do you have any further advice for disabled graduates who are looking for jobs?”
Nadine, Grant Thornton:
“This is a question we’re often asked. We take pride in accommodating every applicant and we’re actively trying to improve the diversity of our workforce. There is no one-size-fits-all rule for when to declare your condition, but if you think you are likely to be at a disadvantage during the selection process, then it’s best to let us know as soon as possible, so we can make the necessary adjustments. When you do declare, I agree that it’s a good idea to be as clear and confident as possible. You may need to help an employer understand your condition before they can work out how best to help you.”
QUESTION 4:
“I want to work for ‘good’ employer that values its staff and is a great place to work. Most big firms claim to care, so how can I spot the ones that really do?”
Tanya, Graduate Fog:
“This is an interesting one. Growing evidence suggests that today’s graduates place an organisation’s values above the salary it offers, when choosing where to work. In recent years we’ve seen more organisations recognise the importance of ‘giving back’ to society, whether that’s in the form of volunteering, charity donations or pro bono work (supplying their services unpaid to worthy causes). More recently, being a Living Wage employer has become a badge of honour, as low-paid work has become a major social issue. What else are ‘good’ employers doing, and how can graduates spot them?”
Nadine, Grant Thornton:
“I think it’s important to care about the organisation you want to work for and ensure its values align with your own. I’d advise doing your research into an organisation. What are they trying to achieve? What’s their mission statement – and end goal? And what impact are they making on communities and society around them? For example, when our new CEO Sacha Romanovitch took over last summer, one of her first announcements was that she was capping her own salary and launching a culture of shared enterprise, which means all our people can share in the reward. Our strategy going forward has purpose at the heart of what we do and the work we do with our clients. A purpose of helping shape a fairer, more sustainable UK economy. Whether it’s the CSR [corporate social responsibility] work an organisation does, or its strategy, or its values that help you to connect, you’ll know when it’s the right place for you.
QUESTION 5:
“Employers say they want graduates with a great attitude — but how do I show that in an application or interview? I’m confused!”
Tanya, Graduate Fog:
“I think this is a really important question — as employers and graduates often find themselves talking at cross-purposes. For example, employers may ask a question like “Why should we offer you this job?” Confused — or suspecting it’s a trick question — graduates will answer along the lines of “Because I really want it and I promise I’ll work really hard if you’ll just give me the chance.” While that’s good to hear, it’s not the response employers are hoping to hear. So what do you want graduates to say?”
Nadine, Grant Thornton:
“It’s all about your passion and motivation for the role and the organisation you’re applying to. If you have a genuine interest in the job you’re applying to that will come through. Think about what you’re interested in and good at – how does that relate to the role you’re applying to? As well as that, what is it about the organisation you’re applying to that particularly appeals to you? This could be one, or several things. What will you get you out of bed in the morning to go and do a good job? That’s usually a good starting (and end) point!”
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Interesting contribution from an employer….not one of the Big Six Firms, though.
Of course there is a bias against hiring the unemployed. It is easier to be taken seriously if you already have a job. You walk into an interview with more authority. In a way it is completely rational. Job applicants are an unknown quantity. Also if you have a job you are not walking into a job interview with the mind set that an interviewer is going to determine whether you can stop shopping at Aldi or stop worrying about getting a benefit sanction.
@Graduate
I suppose that’s one way of looking at it – and I think you’re right that those graduates who aren’t feeling too great about their situation should do a bit of work on their mindset before attending an interview.
However, as Nadine says, I do think it’s important to remember that employers are looking for graduates with potential – which is as much about attitude as skills or experience – and a good interviewer should be able to spot that, whether you have a job or not.
@Eowyn
Grant Thornton are still a pretty big employer 🙂
http://www.grantthornton.co.uk/en/about-us/
“More than 40,000 Grant Thornton people, across over 130 countries, are focused on making a difference to clients, colleagues and the communities in which we live and work. In the UK we provided services to over 40,000 privately held businesses, public interest entities and individuals. It is led by more than 185 partners and employs more than 4,500 of the profession’s brightest minds.”
They’re also one of of the most forward-thinking graduate employers – being the first to remove the 2:1 minimum requirement (since followed by EY, PwC and Penguin). So you could say that if they think a certain way, it’s likely others will soon adopt the same outlook…
Yes, it’s true. I went to a job interview recently and told the truth – that I was unemployed and angry and burned a few bridges straight away. How exactly are you supposed to spin the fact that you’ve been economically inactive for a long time in a positive light?
@Brendan
I think there is a difference between someone who has been volunteering/using their time constructively and someone who has been watching Jeremy Kyle. Not to say that volunteering completely lessens the stigma but you see some people with gaps of years on their CV at a job club I volunteer with and frankly employers will draw their own conclusion from that…
Sometimes it is a more indirect discrimination. You are simply not going to on top of the latest industry developments if you’ve been out of the workplace a while. Perhaps Grant Thornton don’t apply direct discrimination to unemployed applicants but clearly it is easier to be considered the best widget maker if you already employed as a widget maker at another company.
As I say above there is also the fact you can walk into interviews witout reeking of desperation knowing that your ability to pay rent etc is not on the line.
I had a large gap on my CV so I did what many others do – I said screw it, lied and made up an imaginary position. I have a reference from a previous employer, academic references and references from the work programme so I’m covered in that respect.
“Or you can explain why you took each position”
So you can pay rent and buy food? Why else would you have taken it?
@Michael:
In the world we live in now that’s probably necessary. I’ve met people with little or no work experience who found it impossible to get work or move from retail to admin until a friend gave them a reference for a fictional admin position.
Though you have to be careful of the digital footprint.
I don’t have any qualms about lying. If you are on the dole too long you set sanctioned. Sure lying might lose you a job but as Bob Dylan said ‘when you’ve got nothing you’ve got nothing to lose’.
I’m volunteering two days a week with a job club at the moment. It is quite eye opening. Digital literacy is a big issue. Some just don’t have the computer skills to compete in the modern economy. DWP won’t fund the courses — the long-term unemployed are simply not worth caring about. You can win more votes labelling them ‘scroungers’.
You see all the barriers between people and employment. Mental health problems, physical health problems. Lack of education and IT skills. Single mums requiring flexible hours. Some try really hard. Some have frankly given up and just do the minimum to get their dole money. Tragic really.
Some of the saddest cases are the people with CV gaps because they were the carer for a family member who has since passed on from terminal cancer and the like. However legitimate a reason for a CV gap there is still difficulty re-entering the labour market. You get the hiring mangers that still look at you with suspicion. Thing is a similar tragic life event could so easily happen to them.
I’ve just been updating my updating my CV of a Sunday morning.
Recession is over. I am working albeit on what might be a short term contract and my CV is in a stronger position now than at any point since graduating IMHO.
All pre-uni work experience is no longer included. My two most recent positions are industry relevant which is helpful.
However,for 8 months during the recession I was doing irrelevant voluntary work. I now realise what a real stain on my CV it is. Stuck on the tills of my local Cancer Research after frankly graduating at a terrible time.
I still worry it looks awful. Sure youth unemployment was at 1 million but people have short memories. Wish I could turn back time. It took a while to sort myself out. Perhaps longer than it should have.